A Sad Day For Vermont

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GMVT
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A Sad Day For Vermont

Post by GMVT » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:31 am

Yes it's a sad day in Vermont...at least for some of us. Vermont has always had a strong tradition of hunting and fishing, it's even protected in our state constitution. Private property, unless it's posted and the posting recorded in the local town office, is wide open to hunting. But like a creeping crud, rules have been changing recently. For example, permission is now needed from land owners to set up a tree stand, which has really impacted bow hunting. The proliferation of out of state buyers of real estate, people looking for the "Newhart" experience, has become a major obstacle to our tradition of open access. I have always been grateful that we don't have the system prevalent in the south...hunting land tied up by hunting leases and hunting clubs, but posting of property has become our new threat. Why I am I venting today? Because this story is in todays news:

MONTPELIER, Vt. (WCAX) Vermont wildlife managers are hoping to educate and encourage private landowners to provide access to hunters and fishermen. Officials plan to hold an information meeting next month in Middlebury designed for new landowners and others with limited experience with hunters and hunting. State officials and sportsmen's groups have been discouraged by what they say is a growing trend of property owners posting their land, something they say goes against the state's traditions of open access. Three years ago Vermont Fish and Wildlife made a rule change to expand options for landowners by offering a "hunting by permission only" option to land owners.
In a release, officials say hunting can be a valuable tool for conservation, but that managing hunters can be intimidating for those that are unfamiliar with the sport
The seminar will be held on Thursday, October 5th from 6:30 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. at the Ilsely Public Library in Middlebury.


We affectionately refer to these new landowners as "flatlanders", and I never dreamed I would ever see the day that a seminar like this would be necessary. Thanks for letting me vent!
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grouse
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Re: A Sad Day For Vermont

Post by grouse » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:18 pm

Everyone is different, but I sure wouldn't want anyone to have the right to set up a deer stand on my property, or to hunt it without my permission. I worked hard and saved my money so I could afford to have my own place and for that I expect the privilege of deciding who can hunt on it. My primary residence is in a city that is 85 miles from the farm I own so I guess I am an absentee landowner. A local farmer farms my farm, I spend money in the community and I keep an account at a bank in a nearby town. If the local people resent me (and I'm sure some do) I don't care.

The bow season opens Friday morning and I'm heading up tomorrow without any guilt feelings whatsoever.
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Bcxbow
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Re: A Sad Day For Vermont

Post by Bcxbow » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:30 pm

Well I probably won't make a lot of friends with this post but here goes.

I agree in part with both grouse and GMVT, since I live in the south I too despise the fact that big companies buy up private land and then lease it out to clubs or individuals for outrages dues, this is why there is public land. I am also a land owner that purchased the property specifically to develop for good hunting by myself and people of my choosing. Personally anyone caught hunting on land that I own without my written permission will be procecuted to the fullest extent.
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Re: A Sad Day For Vermont

Post by GMVT » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:51 pm

I look forward to more responses, regardless of what they are. It's interesting to see the various opinions from all over the country. Were all a product of our environment I guess...I have had times when I had to go else ware to hunt because someone got there first...on my own land. Some days I give up because there are so many people passing through that we all end up breaking out the Thermos, drink coffee and chew the fat. I got twisted in the woods one time during a heavy snow and ended up in someone's barn yard. The owner of the farm refused to give me a ride back to where I started until I warmed up with a slice of pie. That was then...times have changed. Now our F&W Dept. needs to educate landowners on how to interact with hunters.
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Re: A Sad Day For Vermont

Post by sipsey » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:19 pm

It certainly seems to be a cultural issue. When in Rome or Vermont or wherever, do as is customary.
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Deaf jeff
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Re: A Sad Day For Vermont

Post by Deaf jeff » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:50 pm

the way it is in michigan is you must have permission to hunt private land. the way i was brought up you should ask permission to use and respect anything someone else owns. no matter what it is and rightfully so imo but as stated above areas differ. im glad i live where mine is mine and i have the right to allow or refuse usage of it
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Re: A Sad Day For Vermont

Post by amythntr » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:55 pm

.....SORRY TO SAY.....but I see absolutely no problem with this rule....If I own property and you trip over an old wire fence enroute to putting up your tree stand on my property without my permission am I not responsible for a potential law suit.....and what about whether I wanted to put up a tree stand where you decided to put up a tree stand....I see a whole range of problems....after all...If I own property I really DO NOT want others on the property UNLESS I know who you are and I HAVE given you permission to be there.

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elkaholic
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Re: A Sad Day For Vermont

Post by elkaholic » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:48 pm

here in Ariz- we have lots of public land to hunt- who wants to own the desert wastelands anyway!

I own 100 + acres,up north in one of the top 3 elk units in the state for trophy bulls,- I have it posted KEEP THE HELL OFF MY LAND . I had to cable off my driveway entrance to stop these "people" from driving right past the keep out signs.

Now if hunters are interested and ask - i'm not against the idea of a hunter harvesting a deer or elk on my land - it's not fenced - most is open range since it is old cattle ranch land with grazing rights - others have fenced in their property - mostly to keep cattle out and some have it posted.

most of it is in a square mile checker board--- openland and private.

problem - hunters find elk on open land - cross 2 fences and are caught standing by a dead elk by a stock pond on private land.

the ole well I didn't see any no trespass sign- so I figured it was ok . WRONG

Lucky they didn't get shot!

they were escorted off the land - G&F contacted - dead elk was given to the landowner

not all hunters are as stupid as these are - prescouting - asking permission - not being a dumbace and actually have some kinda hunting ethics helps to get access to private land.

my problem was finding a gut pile and carcass on my property ! trash- beer cans -tire tracks etc. I even had trail cameras stolen off my land . probably due to the fact it identified these persons.

if you own it - post it - protect it by whatever means you think necessary!.

my unique problem is my land is the only private property on one of the public land square miles - in a corner of the grid - with a nice stock tank on the public land
Last edited by elkaholic on Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

janesy
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Re: A Sad Day For Vermont

Post by janesy » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:57 pm

I don't really understand.. private land is exactly that. Private land. Why should anyone have the ability(much less the right) to use it for ANYTHING without permission.
In Ontario, you stay off the land you have not received permission to hunt simple as that. Unless you want to be branded a trespasser and a poacher if you take a deer while trespassing. Granted we have ample crown land, not so much in the south but still.

I would be absolutely livid if I had to allow anyone on my land because of a law. That's why I pay taxes on my land and hold the deed as my own.
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Riflemanz
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Re: A Sad Day For Vermont

Post by Riflemanz » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:05 pm

If it's private land you ask permission, I have no problem with that.
If I owned land I want you to ask before trespassing.
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Re: A Sad Day For Vermont

Post by BrotherRon » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:19 pm

Riflemanz wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:05 pm
If it's private land you ask permission, I have no problem with that.
If I owned land I want you to ask before trespassing.
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Re: A Sad Day For Vermont

Post by W.Miguire » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:38 pm

Here in Wisc. if you shot a animal on your land or on land you have permission to hunt on and it crosses the neighbors land you must ask permission to track or retrieve it. and if they refuse you loose your game . I must say that where we live I only seen it happen once. You must ask permission to hunt on private land . most people will let you if you ask politely anyway that's what I found . also there is a law that the land owner is not responsible for any accident that happens on their land while hunting.
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xcaliber
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Re: A Sad Day For Vermont

Post by xcaliber » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:05 pm

amythntr wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:55 pm
.....SORRY TO SAY.....but I see absolutely no problem with this rule....If I own property and you trip over an old wire fence enroute to putting up your tree stand on my property without my permission am I not responsible for a potential law suit.....and what about whether I wanted to put up a tree stand where you decided to put up a tree stand....I see a whole range of problems....after all...If I own property I really DO NOT want others on the property UNLESS I know who you are and I HAVE given you permission to be there.

Anthony :)
Yep, I own it, it's mine. Ask, and maybe, but if have to give up a spot to someone that pays no taxes for the land, does any upkeep, etc. I have a serious issue with that.
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Re: A Sad Day For Vermont

Post by Doe Master » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:25 pm

A number of years ago when Me and a buddy went to Vermont to turkey hunt . We encountered nothing but friendly land owners . Heck one even told us instead of camping in the back field to put our tent up in the barn . Best sleep camping I have ever had . Even though we could have hunted a few places because of out dated signs . We still went and knocked the landowners door .
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Re: A Sad Day For Vermont

Post by foofoo » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:13 pm

sounds like you use to live in a slice of old world heaven. thats great that land sharing was normal. things change and money is the fire and the fuel. hunting in the mountains is different than say hunting a flat land piece that people may own or lease and plant and plow and put time and money and serious efforts into deer management. calling out of town people flatlanders is normal in many states ive hunted. funny thing is one time i hunted in the mountains of Western Pennsylvania and a hunter rolled in from Colorado took a look around and asked where the mountains were :lol: . hang in there!

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