Advice on preventing a future miss

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savannah
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Advice on preventing a future miss

Post by savannah » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:56 am

Hello all, here is my recent crossbow hunt and what happened. I am hunting with a Stryker Offspring as I love the excalibur stock and the smooth easy draw weight of the limbs. The bow is topped with a Nikon Bolt crossbow scope. I practice all summer and as you know the crossbow scopes all have some kind of bulled drop lines. So mine is right on at 20, next line 30, 40 etc. I like to keep most shots within 30 yds with my compound bow. The crossbow I will step it out a tad further, but not much. Its still not a rifle.

So 3 nights ago im in my blind and have my 11 yr old son with me. The blind is raised up about 6ft off the ground in an old apple orchard. Last 15min of the night hunt I hear steps coming and know its a deer. I had previously ranged a cpl trees for reference. Where he was coming from I had ranged a tree to be 37 yds. When he stepped into the clearing he was a few yds in front of that tree. I guessed him to be about 33 yds. I stopped him completely broadside, aimed my 30 yard line a little high and fired. He ran off like crazy, thought I nailed him. We waited 15min before looking for the bolt. I found it, stuck in that referenced tree. The broadhead had some brown hair and a little fat, nothing more. Followed his steps in the snow, not a pin drop of blood. Bottom line I sailed the bolt right over his back giving him an ever so small haircut.

So heres my problem. When I archery hunt I use one single pin sighted in at 20 yds. If the deer is a little further I just aim top of the lungs, closer a little lower. Having a pie plate space for margin of error I have been very successful over the years. Now I have a scope with all these lines all over it. It is super accurate when Im target practicing and know the exact distance to my target. But when does that ever happen when hunting? On this hunt I knew some surrounding references and he came in-between them. So I had to guess which line to use( which is already too much thinking when your very excited IMO) The 20 and 30yd line are so small apart its almost ridiculous, not to mention now you dont have a single crosshair your splitting lines on your target. It's all 20/20 now, but im thinking if I had a single cross hair that I had sighted in at 20 yds, I would have aimed a little high and hit my mark. But I cant find a single crossbow scope with just a crosshair on it, not all the drop lines. They all have distance markers. And no, I want nothing to do with a red dot, I like a nice clear reticle. Can I put a small 4x shotgun scope on this or will I have parallax issues then? What do you do, or think of this situation? Thanks for any thoughts and replies.

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nchunterkw
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Re: Advice on preventing a future miss

Post by nchunterkw » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:34 am

I think you could have hit him high....above the lungs and below the spine. If you sailed him but just hit hair/skin there woudl be no fat on the arrow. There is that small area (probably about where you aimed) where you hit nothing vital. Happened to me before.

When you target shoot do you shoot off of a rest all the time? Try shooting off a rest, and then shoot exactly as you would in the woods and see if there is a difference. If you are shooting off of sandbags or something soft, and then shoot off of a hard rail, that can make a difference sometimes too.

On deer my POA is middle body, behind the front leg. If they are a few yards farther - heart. If a few yards closer....probably hit exactly where I am aiming. On my Micro I have a Hawke SR Pro. Hawke has a nice app for yo phone that shows you your trajectory. For example, for my setup, with a 20yd zero, My arrow starts out about 1.5" low, near zero is at 5yds, max height is about 1" around 15yards, then back to zero at 20. If you understand this for your scope and practice at the odd distances, I think you will figure it out. I like the multiple aiming points, bt it takes a little time and undersdtanding before you are comfortable.
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Boo
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Re: Advice on preventing a future miss

Post by Boo » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:40 am

I agree with Keith as far as POA. But it's a bit of a puzzle where your hit was.
I'm going to suggest 2 things. If you're going to shoot from 6' high, practice from that height. Two, use an illuminated nock and watch the point of impact through your scope.
I've used the wrong scope reference line way too many times, mostly going over the animal and it seems to me that the finer the lines, the easier it is to get confused. There's no doubt to me that using a single crosshair creates less confusion, especially if your brain has been conditioned to using a rife. It may help to shoot some 3D courses to get your head wrapped around shooting crossbows.
Good luck!
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wabi
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Re: Advice on preventing a future miss

Post by wabi » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:54 am

I use a Leupold VXII 1-4x20 on my Phoenix.
On MY Phoenix with MY arrows when sighted in at 25 yards I can use a dead-on hole on any deer from 0-30 yards and hit within 3" of POA.
If I ever find it necessary I can use the top duplex post (the thick to thin transition) when the scope is on 2x (again this is for MY setup) for a 15 yard hold to be dead on, or the bottom duplex post for 35 yards.
I have missed more than one deer :oops: by using a "crossbow scope" with multiple range marks and than under the stress of a shot used the wrong mark. :oops:
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savannah
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Re: Advice on preventing a future miss

Post by savannah » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:13 pm

Thank you all for comments so far. It is great to hear some have used regular gun scopes with success. FWIW, I just ordered a dozen new BEE bolts from Wyvern creations and had 3 of them equipped with lighted nocks. A miss is a miss, and a wound is even worse. As depressing as it is I find peace in the fact I have done the best I could to make a highly probable quick kill. I have good equipment, practice a lot, and limit my shots to reasonable ranges. This is my 2nd year of crossbow as NYS just made it part of the equation a yr or so ago. I am just having a hard time wrapping my head around these distance defined scopes. It's one thing if your coyote hunting or something and the animal is 200yds away and has no idea your there and you have 10min to range find, set up, etc. With the crossbow, and a lot of our stands when the deer comes in you might pick him/her up at 40yds but its time to get things together quickly. Most of the time their so da*n quiet they just appear out of nowhere at ....yards and are moving. To try and stop the animal, figure out what distance its at, then figure out what line to use just seems like a recipe for a miss. And trust me im not making excuses, I missed. I love being excited and all the things that happen when a deer appears. Im just trying to limit the variables and focus on what to practice on. Like I said in my original post thats why with my compound bow I have a single pin set at 20 yds. It takes all of that away.

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Boo
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Re: Advice on preventing a future miss

Post by Boo » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:33 pm

savannah wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:13 pm
Thank you all for comments so far. It is great to hear some have used regular gun scopes with success. FWIW, I just ordered a dozen new BEE bolts from Wyvern creations and had 3 of them equipped with lighted nocks. A miss is a miss, and a wound is even worse. As depressing as it is I find peace in the fact I have done the best I could to make a highly probable quick kill. I have good equipment, practice a lot, and limit my shots to reasonable ranges. This is my 2nd year of crossbow as NYS just made it part of the equation a yr or so ago. I am just having a hard time wrapping my head around these distance defined scopes. It's one thing if your coyote hunting or something and the animal is 200yds away and has no idea your there and you have 10min to range find, set up, etc. With the crossbow, and a lot of our stands when the deer comes in you might pick him/her up at 40yds but its time to get things together quickly. Most of the time their so da*n quiet they just appear out of nowhere at ....yards and are moving. To try and stop the animal, figure out what distance its at, then figure out what line to use just seems like a recipe for a miss. And trust me im not making excuses, I missed. I love being excited and all the things that happen when a deer appears. Im just trying to limit the variables and focus on what to practice on. Like I said in my original post thats why with my compound bow I have a single pin set at 20 yds. It takes all of that away.
You have a good attitude that will no doubt lead you to better times. While I might be wrong, from what you describe, I don't see a mortally wounded deer from your shot. I think you both got an education! :mrgreen:
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Re: Advice on preventing a future miss

Post by sproulman » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:12 am

experts with a lot tips...I like your idea of using only 20 yd line and keeping shots close..

PRACTICE is must shooting freehand ...I sight my 20 yd line at 30 yards dead ..never use others..
my shots also are 35 yards and under ..

I have been sad on what is happening with expanding points..Hunters are not taking broadside shots,you did GREAT..Many in my area lost deer as they took angle shots with expanding points hitting bone ..Very sad....

They just cannot let a 8 point buck go my brother said..SPROUL he was going to get away i had to shoot at 35 yds with angle shot ..You must understand that..I DONT..... :twisted:

I guess some of us are old school that only take clean shot at close range or buck walks or bear walks...But 53 years at it and I can sleep at night .....

I wish folks could have been with me when we tested arrows in slight wind just enough to blow the flags..You should have seen arrow groups..So much so I had to call Paul for advice could not figure out what was happening :shock:

How many worry about that at 35 yards then later say how did i miss?

PRACTICE is must in all kinds of weather i shoot in rain,off roof of house ,out of treestand,on ground walking ..in off season I walk now with arrows with blunt points taking shots at stumps...Great practice ...

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Sparkey
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Re: Advice on preventing a future miss

Post by Sparkey » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:44 pm

Here is the single dot scope you are looking for:

http://www.parkerbows.com/RHcrossbowacc.html?action=detail&detailsku=1120

A fixed 3X magnification scope that has a has the cross with a single red dot in the center.

Turret adjustable for hunting or target.

Basically sight in with a tape that you calibrated so once sighted in you can adjust to target.

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georgiaboy
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Re: Advice on preventing a future miss

Post by georgiaboy » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:09 pm

Like you I like the idea of a single rectile...KISS rule :D
With that being said I have a Hawke scope on my Matrix with the 20/30/40 etc lines on it, but after 15 years of hunting with a crossbow I’m used to it. I killed a doe the early part of our season that was a similar scenario.
I had a big pine tree ranged at 37yds and she stopped my side of it. I judged her for 32-33yds, held a tad high with my 30yd pin and put a spitfire right through the heart. 8)
Do you know how fast your bow is shooting :?: Your margin for error will be a little more forgiving the faster your bow is. Once you have your new scope dialed in I would suggest you shoot at your target from several un ranged distance’s to get the feel of it.
Good luck and keep us posted :D :D
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Noreaster
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Re: Advice on preventing a future miss

Post by Noreaster » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:25 pm

Just a thought but, when you stop a deer, they are on alert and looking to identify the sound. They are on full alert and can easily jump even the fastest setup when on alert. In that situation, 33-37 yards I'd aim lower third with the 30 yard pin. That being said, I rarely stop deer and haven't taken a shot over 25 yards in nearly 30 years. That affords me better likely hood of a sure killing shot and generally means I'll get to spend more time afield during my favorite time of year. :wink:

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Re: Advice on preventing a future miss

Post by vixenmaster » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:12 pm

I have a XB1 Hawke SR on mine, i set it at 5x n use the xhair sighted in at 30 yds dead center n at 40 yds its 4.5" low. At 20 yds its 3: high, its set on auto drive the xhair hits center chest behind leg it fires it dead tick toter
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