Spitfire Performance

Crossbow Hunting

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hankenhunter
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Re: Spitfire Performance

Post by hankenhunter » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:04 am

My ticket to a quick death is aim lower. If you shoot too low, no harm but a briskit hair cut. Dead on =kill. Shoot high = kill also. I see way too many high shots that take awhile to fill up and bleed. Lower shots mean a near instant blood trail. This is important if you're on the ground as the higher you aim, the farther the arrow will go after pass through.
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SEW
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Re: Spitfire Performance

Post by SEW » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:41 am

Without question, that lower hit is the goal. It’s still amazing to me just how much internal resistance exists with the mid-chest shot.

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robertyb
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Re: Spitfire Performance

Post by robertyb » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:42 am

If you found her still alive and had to shoot again then you missed your double lung shot. I would worry more about arrow placement than not getting a pass through. Stuff happens and it sounds like you got lucky that she went down fast.
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paulaboutform
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Re: Spitfire Performance

Post by paulaboutform » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:01 pm

Hi Steve. I really think you should consider the Toxic Broadheads. The 100gr are more accurate than the 125gr but equally as deadly. They don't penetrate as well as regular fixed broadheads like the slick tricks but they do create an obscene amount of blood. All of your bows produce plenty of power so penetration won't be an issue. That's all I can offer....anything more would be like preaching to the pastor! :wink:

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SEW
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Re: Spitfire Performance

Post by SEW » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:40 pm

Paul,
Energy isn’t the problem with any of my xbows, as you know M380,405,405,BD400. For so many years shooting a short “long” bow , a 52# Black Widow, and still a 52# Palmer WT Classic with 2315s and 2216s, Bear Super Razorheads and other similarly designed broadheads. I used these for at least 35 years and only 2 non- passthrus : scapula hits. The Super Razorhead would have gone through that mid chest shot doe easily.
I’ll look at the Toxics. Also hear/read great things about Ram Cats and G5 anythings.
However , I think we likely all agree that the majority of broadheads are very good and any real problem has to do with shot placement.
Steve

SEW
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Re: Spitfire Performance

Post by SEW » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:43 pm

Paul,
Energy isn’t the problem with any of my xbows, as you know M380,405,405,BD400. For so many years shooting a short “long” bow , a 52# Black Widow, and still a 52# Palmer WT Classic with 2315s and 2216s, Bear Super Razorheads and other similarly designed broadheads. I used these for at least 35 years and only 2 non- passthrus : scapula hits. The Super Razorhead would have gone through that mid chest shot doe easily.
I’ll look at the Toxics. Also hear/read great things about Ram Cats and G5 anythings.
However , I think we likely all agree that the majority of broadheads are very good and any real problem has to do with shot placement.
Steve

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drkeenan
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Re: Spitfire Performance

Post by drkeenan » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:29 pm

I've been shooting 100 g spitfires for quite some time with no issues. Very reliable regardless of setup. The fact that you had to shoot twice means it wasn't a double lung shot so I would be more worried about shot placement in the future than BH. That said, if you aren't confident in your BH you shouldn't be using them. There are ton's of other great options out there!!

Good harvest in any case!
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dfinley
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Re: Spitfire Performance

Post by dfinley » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:46 pm

SEW wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:06 am
2 mnths ago, I shot a relatively large buck with a classic heart shot. Down within 50 yds. Nice passthru and blood trail. 446g arrow, 92 g insert, 125g SF, ~368’/sec.

Yesterday, same xbow, etc, shot a mature doe, about the same distance, 44 yards, mid chest shot, about 3-4 “ higher than ideal, looked just like one of those disgusting hunting shows where the deer runs off with most of the arrow sticking out. No blood trail, no passthru, deer went about 75 yards, arrow came out somewhere, found the deer still alive, shot it again.

Energy wasn’t a problem(118 ft lbs). Unfired, original Spitfire, 446g arrow, likely going about 345’/sec. Hit a rib on the way in. I’ve found it really hard to aim well enough to fit right in between those individual ribs!

Usually Spitfires go thru like going thru butter, but occasionally things like this. I’ve had this happen with FOCs also.

I’m considering using Griz Tricks again. Nothing equals a passthru other than the occasional DRT that I’ve had with FOCs.

Thoughts?
[/quote

I bet it didn't open

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nchunterkw
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Re: Spitfire Performance

Post by nchunterkw » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:26 pm

robertyb wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:42 am
If you found her still alive and had to shoot again then you missed your double lung shot. I would worry more about arrow placement than not getting a pass through. Stuff happens and it sounds like you got lucky that she went down fast.
I agree with Robert on this one, and disagree with Hank. If you look at a deer's anatomy, broadside from the ground, 1/2 way up the body and tight behind the leg/shoulder should center punch the lungs. This is where I believe you have the most room for error (+/- 2" or so) Lower will hit the heart, but lower and a bit forward will hit neither heart or lungs. There is room for a high hit that misses the spine and lungs, especially if forward some.

Regardless, a deer doesn't need to fill up to dump blood on the ground, especially when lung shot. #1 the circulatory system is under pressure. Every deer this year I had big drops of blood at the POI. #2 as the heart pumps and diaphragm squeezes trying to breath, blood is pumped out (and also into the nose/mouth) . And #3 as they try to breath blood comes out of the nose/mouth.
Keith
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SEW
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Re: Spitfire Performance

Post by SEW » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:21 pm

No question, there is adequate analysis and conclusions here. I routinely hit too high. Most broadheads will do a great job with good placement. Some broadheads are more forgiving with less than optimal placement.
Some broadheads have serious indemic problems: 3 out of 3 Carni4s didn’t open, Rage - 1st year was not a good year. I never made it to another year with Rage.
Last edited by SEW on Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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robertyb
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Re: Spitfire Performance

Post by robertyb » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:39 am

SEW wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:21 pm
No question, there is adequate analysis and conclusions here. I routinely hit too high. Most broadheads will do a great job with good placement. Some broadheads are more forgiving with less than optimal placement.
Some broadheads have serious indelicate problems: 3 out of 3 Carni4s didn’t open, Rage - 1st year was not a good year. I never made it to another year with Rage.
I would never shoot a Rage because of their reputation. I bought some Hypodermics on sale last year to see what all the hype was about with them. I now shoot them pretty much exclusively as they have really impressed me. My G5 Montecs and Swackers are lonely now.
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SEW
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Re: Spitfire Performance

Post by SEW » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:02 am

Rage’s first year was a very mixed year. Incredible kills, I had 2 of these. Even one of my pictures was used in advertising. Then disaster, followed by a long tracking plus eventual recovery. My son had bad experiences. I eventually recovered his 2 disasters.
Yes, I’ve read a lot of good about the newer versions.
The 1960 Corvair’s 145 ci engine was a disaster. By its last year, the 1969 Corvair was quite a nice car! However, it was forever tarnished from its first year. Same with the Pontiac Fiero. In its last year, it was quite a performance car: well balanced, fast, etc. However, it “Fire” problems, etc, were insurmountable PR problems.
Who lost out? The people who let their prejudices not get the improved, corrected, refined versions of these 2 cars. Note: maybe someday GM will learn to not let their customers be their testing grounds. Honda and Toyota do their testing before marketing their vehicles. They didn’t need bailouts!
Maybe, someday, I’ll be objective enough, open minded enough to consider a Rage again. They’re on sale at WalMart now.

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nchunterkw
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Re: Spitfire Performance

Post by nchunterkw » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:32 pm

I lost a nice buck to a Rage back in the early 2000's. My buddy shot them from his vert bow and loved them and suggested I try them. Not knowing then what I know now, I did. I did get some nice kills but even then I got a bit lucky. Had a nice buck come in at about 15yards broadside. Took aim right behind the shoulder and THWACK!. But back. Far back. But a nice blood trail that I could see from where I was still sitting. Luckily I hit the liver and it was all over. He went about 70 yards. I'm pretty sure the blades were opening as I found a scratch on my stirrup. That pretty much ended it for me with Rage and all mechanicals. Once I figured out how to make good fixed points fly great, I was fixed all the way. First was Montec -but I could never get them super sharp and my blood trails were not great. THen SLick Trick and Magnus 2 blades - both great. Now Ramcats. A really good BH IMO. Could it be better, (thicker blades for 1) I think so, but the parts I think make them good I would not change. Truly swept back design and scooped out ferrule. Steve...am I nuts or does that swept back blade really help aerodynamics?
Keith
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