Carni4s

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SEW
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Carni4s

Post by SEW » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:08 pm

Forward: I’ve used expandibles since the infamous Puckett days (over 30 years ago) with only the occasional usage of fixed broadheads interspersed with the expandibles. For the 30 years prior to that, I used fixed.
As stated in another thread, I’ve used Spitfires primarily since their introduction decades ago. This year, I also mixed in Carni4s. They fly great and look really viscous.
2 month’s ago, I shot a doe with a high double lung shot. Passthru. Arrow on the ground. Broadhead never opened. Small entrance and exit. I thought it just must be a fluke.
Today, I shot another doe down a steep incline, 44 yards, Carni4. Arrow in the snow. I removed the snow around the broadhead ; and again, it wasn’t opened. My speciality, a high double lung hit. Deer went about 100 yards. It got up and started off. Shot again: heart shot. Recovered the arrow. Didn’t open again. Recovered the doe also :D .
3 out of 3 didn’t open. These weren’t expandibles that closed when being removed ; rather, they were laying on the ground or in the dirt but dirt removed so the arrow could be lifted straight up.
Others experiences with Carni4s?

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Re: Carni4s

Post by mchurch » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:37 pm

They have made some changes to the carni four. The first pack I had were super stiff and said were ok for all crossbows. More recently I bought some from the website directly and they said for crossbow shooting under 400 fps. These are not as stiff and the longer blades come off the ferrule at a slightly different angle. I like them but also have nothing but positive things to say about the veteran broadhead. I am shooting a bulldog 400
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vixenmaster
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Re: Carni4s

Post by vixenmaster » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:27 am

I have heard it both ways, some love others hate it. Sometimes it works right n sometimes it does not. I am not goin to mess wid it, i have several B-heads that always work n never had a bad exp. usin them
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Re: Carni4s

Post by paulaboutform » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:57 am

Steve, you're much more long suffering than I am. The first failure is bad enough but a second and third just close the deal....scrap! :wink:

Paul

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nchunterkw
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Re: Carni4s

Post by nchunterkw » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:58 am

Steve,
Looking at this an an engineer...........If you get good enough accuracy with fixed blades why ever choose a mechanical as they inherently have many more possible points of failure?

Data on over 500 animals shows that distance deer travel after being shot through the vitals does not correlate to anything (fixed, mechanical, blade size, number of blades...nothing).

Keith
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Hi5
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Re: Carni4s

Post by Hi5 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:37 pm

nchunterkw wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:58 am
Steve,
Looking at this an an engineer...........If you get good enough accuracy with fixed blades why ever choose a mechanical as they inherently have many more possible points of failure?

Data on over 500 animals shows that distance deer travel after being shot through the vitals does not correlate to anything (fixed, mechanical, blade size, number of blades...nothing).

Keith
Haven't seen the data, but I'm not surprised at the conclusion.
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nchunterkw
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Re: Carni4s

Post by nchunterkw » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:09 pm

Hi5 wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:37 pm
nchunterkw wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:58 am
Steve,
Looking at this an an engineer...........If you get good enough accuracy with fixed blades why ever choose a mechanical as they inherently have many more possible points of failure?

Data on over 500 animals shows that distance deer travel after being shot through the vitals does not correlate to anything (fixed, mechanical, blade size, number of blades...nothing).

Keith
Haven't seen the data, but I'm not surprised at the conclusion.
Send me a PM with your email and I can email you teh data. It's pretty interesting. 50yd median, 90yd 90th percentile.
Keith
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SEW
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Re: Carni4s

Post by SEW » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:11 pm

nchunterkw wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:58 am
Steve,
Looking at this an an engineer...........If you get good enough accuracy with fixed blades why ever choose a mechanical as they inherently have many more possible points of failure?

Data on over 500 animals shows that distance deer travel after being shot through the vitals does not correlate to anything (fixed, mechanical, blade size, number of blades...nothing).

Keith
Keith,
Great question! I strive for the flattest trajectory practical. I want a BH that requires the least fletching drag practical. Field point requires least, low profile expandible (Schwacker, FOC are about the least), comes next, and large profile fixed BH last.
I can get great accuracy with just slight offset Blazers and a little less foc when using fairly low profile expandibles. I want the least foc that gives maximum accuracy.

Fixed requires more steering from the vanes, normally helical, a little more foc, and has the drag of the spinning blades.
Additionally, fixed broadheads seem to be more affected by winds.

I’ve found that a very aerodynamic arrow (least induced drag) can perform as much better than a standard/average arrow to have a trajectory of a regular arrow being launched at 25’/sec faster . This shows up mostly at 50-100 yards.
I routinely set my XB75s on my M380 & 405 at about 25’/sec faster than the actual arrow speed.

These 3 failures are the first failures of expandible broadheads in over 30 years of usage and >100 deer. EXCEPT, for the first year of the RAGE! Still, I never lost a deer to the Rage, but in 2 cases, a field tip would have worked better.

In spite of all I’ve stated here, I’ll likely use a Grizz Trick this coming year, but with a couple of SFs in the quiver.

I’ll send.Thanks.

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robertyb
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Re: Carni4s

Post by robertyb » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:47 am

I do not judge broadheads as an Engineer or anything else other than "do they work". I have been shooting mechanicals since they first hit the market and have not yet had a single failure of one to open properly on an animal and I have shot way to many to remember them all. I have lost a couple of deer when using them but that was the fault of the Indian and not the broadhead that made the bad shots. I have lost a couple with fixed blades too for the same reasons. As long as a mechanical is set up properly it will work as designed and most shoot close to field point accuracy out of the box.
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nchunterkw
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Re: Carni4s

Post by nchunterkw » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:44 pm

I think your last point is why many shoot mechanicals.....especially as launch speeds increase. Fixed blades are less forgiving of any arrow imperfections.My thoughts are tha if I have a arrow flying really well with a big fixed head on it, then I know that is a good arrow. Conversely, I can have an arrow that flies just fine with a FP, but when I put a big fixed blade on it it does not fly well. That is arrow is less perfect than the other and needs some attention. But if I put a mechanical head on that arrow it may fly just fine - even though it is not a great arrow. Truth be told it's probably fine to hunt with so I'm just being over the top with my argument, but that's how I look at things. Another view is that many of us buy Excaliburs based on the K.I.S.S. principle, and fixed heads fit this bill too. In any event, each type of head is fine and each type kill the same....
Keith
"Nothing clears a troubled mind like shooting a bow."

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