How fast are our arrows actually traveling at 100 yards ?

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L. E. Carroll
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How fast are our arrows actually traveling at 100 yards ?

Post by L. E. Carroll » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:58 pm

I know our bows are rated at certain speeds as "Feet Per Second" at aproximately 5 feet thru a chrony with a certain weight "test arrow". If those speeds were a close referance (?) our arrows could be covering 100 yards in less than a second in many cases. ( Bows rated over 300 fps )

Some here, talk of possibly shooting "at" a game animal at 100 yards or in some cases beyond. :shock:

Even if a 355 Micro, Matrix 380, or any other model with a stated speed, is shot at those distances with even a arrow as light as those test weight arrows, Do any here have any ideas of actual speeds or possibly have actual " measured " speeds at say 100 yards.

This is not even taking into consideration the weights of the actual hunting weight arrows we choose and the immediate speed loss of those at just chronograph distance. :roll:

I'm just laying this out there to see your thoughts and if any actual speeds have been recorded at those extended ranges ?

Personally, I'm not a good enough shot even at a bench, shooting off a solid rest, to want to chance destroying :cry: my chrono at those ranges.

Thanks for thoughts or better yet measured results to this question. :wink:
Gene
Camo Micro 335 gen. ll " w/ XB30 SR Pro
Camo Micro 355 w/ XB30 SR Pro & TT trigger
Camo Matrix 380 W/ Crossbones scope & a Boo trigger
all w/Camo Munch mounts
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otisbrazwell
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Re: How fast are our arrows actually traveling at 100 yards ?

Post by otisbrazwell » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:41 pm

my buddy pro shop here in rhode island has sold 32 raven crossbows all because they think they can shoot deer at 100 yrds. a lot of ball busting to as i don't own the raven. tried to get a few to shoot target @ 100 yrds with me all i have is matrix 330 & matrix bulldog. none
will shoot @100 yrds. at the other end of a football field it all changes you better have real good tracking skills :lol:

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IronNoggin
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Re: How fast are our arrows actually traveling at 100 yards ?

Post by IronNoggin » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:48 pm

I commonly shoot to 100 yards with my Matrix 380.
And it not only groups well at that range, it does bury the 400 grain arrow (dressed) fairly snugly into the target.
No idea at all how fast it is going out there, but takes a hell of a lot longer than a second to get there IMHO.

I too would be interested.
Perhaps if no one has the answer handy, Paul could be convinced to set such a test up at the next BooFest 100 yard shoot??

Following this one...

Cheers,
Nog
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

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galamb
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Re: How fast are our arrows actually traveling at 100 yards ?

Post by galamb » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:58 pm

A few of us at work jiggered around with a 355 Matrix.

We couldn't shoot further that 70 yards (space limitations) but did measure the speed and drop over that distance.

What was surprising to us was the loss of speed stayed fairly consistent right at about 4 fps for every 10 yards. We assumed at "some point" it would become non-linear but again, didn't have room to test.

At 70 yards the arrow was still travelling at 327 fps (used a 352 grain set-up that measured 354 at 5' from the barrel).

The drop along the way was definitely non-linear. The drop at 20 yards (from line of sight) was about 6". By 30 yards it was just on a foot low. Out at 70 yards it was over 6 feet below the line of sight (in relation to the rail). I would expect it to be over 12 feet low out at 100 feet although unless the speed loss became non-linear by then it should still be packing enough speed (and KE) to completely pass through a deer.

I just can't begin to imagine how much can go wrong though if you are aiming 12 feet or so "high" and hoping it will drop into the vitals ethically...
Graham

Vix II, VixenMaster flemish/S5, 20" GT Laser II's - 100 gr Dead Ringer Stiletto II's (394 grains - 22.5% F.O.C.) @272 FPS

Bow River Archery 51# Summit TD Recurve, Beman Bone Collectors - 100 gr Rage 40KE (491 grains - 14.6% FOC) @148 FPS

SEW
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Re: How fast are our arrows actually traveling at 100 yards ?

Post by SEW » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:02 pm

This is a test I did nearly a year ago.

: SEW, please read this and give me your input
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Post by SEW » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:28 pm

FWIW, I did a velocity loss test of, I think, 445g helical Blazers , Spynal Tapp, 20", Grizz Tricked arrows a few weeks ago. M405.
1 yd - 369'/sec
20 - 360
40 - 354
60 - 337
80 - 325
100 - 311

This speed loss was likely a little more than if field tipped. Velocity loss 20-100 yds - 58'/sec, and only 25% energy loss ( 30' - lbs, 120 to 90).
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Re: How fast are our arrows actually traveling at 100 yards ?

Post by SEW » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:04 pm

All these thoughts expressed about not having enough energy left at 100 yards are generally without merit. I have some arrows of the same weight but less foc and offset, not helical that are definitely flying flatter, thus less speed/energy loss.
But, I’d never have know inless I did the velocity loss test. However, there’s not a lot of difference in target penetration.
My Optimizer/Duralyt/Zombies/ and a great xbow gave me confidence to make this test. I’ll admit, I had a Block target in front of the actual chronograph. However, it was never needed.

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L. E. Carroll
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Re: How fast are our arrows actually traveling at 100 yards ?

Post by L. E. Carroll » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:10 am

Thank''s SEW and others who gave advise or coments... I must say that the measured speed loss was much lower than I expected. :D However, I admit that I was extremely surprised to see that an arrow still traveling in excess of 300 fps when shot from a bow in the 380 or higher speed catagory ( at release ), could make it 100 yards in less than a second. :shock:

But still, in my case the room for error is way more than I want to deal with, especially if you factor in the amount of movement available to an animal during that "Time of Flite" when added to the amount of hold over I would need to be spot on with a "Kill Shot" at that range in a hunting enviroment. :shock: .

Again, thanks to all who joined in with insight and measurements as I had never read anything prior to this discussing speed loss and time of flight when taking a 100 yard long shot be it target or in what I would hope would be a rare hunting shot in the field ( obviously by a better shot than I am). :D

Gene
Camo Micro 335 gen. ll " w/ XB30 SR Pro
Camo Micro 355 w/ XB30 SR Pro & TT trigger
Camo Matrix 380 W/ Crossbones scope & a Boo trigger
all w/Camo Munch mounts
Sweet 44 yr. old 73 Bronco
Scamp tralier

SEW
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Re: How fast are our arrows actually traveling at 100 yards ?

Post by SEW » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:05 am

There are many factors to consider when contemplating long range xbow/hbow hunting: energy remaining, time of flight, animal movement, accurate ranging, trajectory, etc.

I think the first 3 can be relatively well managed. I hunt longer ranges than the vast majority of bow hunters. No apologies! I’m not loosing deer with the longer range shots. However, that range isn’t the infamous 100 yards of a well know advertiser.

The problem is the acceleration (drop) due to gravity. 9.8m/sec x sec. There’s a lot of drop at 100 yards.

For a moderately fast xbow with an average velocity of 340’/sec out to 100 yds.
Distance in inches = 1/2 x 386” x 0.882 sec x 0.882 sec = 150” or 12 1/2 feet.
That’s with maybe a 4-5” good kill zone.

Here’s the clincher:
At 100 yds, it dropped 150”.
At 99 yds, it dropped 147”.
At 101 yds, it dropped 153.3”.

I don’t think energy is a problem at all, nor even animal movement under the right conditions, or even wind drift in relatively low wind conditions by a shooter who has practiced extensively doping the wind.

Range measurement, hunting shooting conditions, wind effect (none of us is perfect), etc all add up to a much more complicated situation than shooting a deer target off of a good rest on a table. Believe me, I have deer targets from 50 yds to 100 yards and practice weekly or more often.

I shoot coyotes with my xbow out to 100+ yards with >75% success. I hate those things!! Killed my cat in my back yard. Loved my cat!! During a 3 week bitter freeze, 20ish years ago, 8 of them tried repeatedly over 2 hrs to attack my as I tried to get out of my treestand with my bow/4 arrows. Temp was appx 0F.

I hate the Ravin ad. I think they should be boycotted! They know that 100 yard deer hunting with a bow is impractical for virtually everyone. Even with a M405. Mike Palmer can do it well with a vrecurve. Our former Olympic coach and 2 x world champion. Only entered 2 times. Consecutive years.

I’m not a Mike Palmer. But I do have and still hunt with one of his recurves! :D

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Big John
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Re: How fast are our arrows actually traveling at 100 yards ?

Post by Big John » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:05 pm

Well said Sew. I agree with just about every word said.
Mostly I very much dislike the Ravin ads!!👺
Gives people a very bad influence oriented attitude.
Like you, I also like a little longer hunting ranges.
My field partner Al is always asking how far was it this time when he comes to help me.
If you practice and work your set up at those ranges all the time, it becomes second nature when to take the shot. However, it is better not to speak of these long range hunts because of negative feed back and internet bickering. With a Matrix 380 and my arrow work up I have no issues with targets at 100 yds. As well, I make arrows specifically for people who do the same, such as yourself. The most important thing is never leave without a rangefinder!!!! And use it!!
I will also add, at 100 yds. the arrows still bury halfway into my rinehart block target!!
As a helper for some who are trying, or want to shoot tbese distances, a proper built arrow works amazing wonders. And none of the long range arrows weigh less than 400 grs.

Big John
Phoenix - 375 gr. BEE's (babyneilsons)
Micro 315 - 410 gr. GT's
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Matrix 380 Lynx - 400gr. BEA's
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Hi5
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Re: How fast are our arrows actually traveling at 100 yards ?

Post by Hi5 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:52 pm

I liked this thread.

The question was sensibly stated. The answer was supported with data. The commentary was civil.
"Gun Control Laws"--trying to nag criminals into submission.

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IronNoggin
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Re: How fast are our arrows actually traveling at 100 yards ?

Post by IronNoggin » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:44 pm

Big John wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:05 pm
As a helper for some who are trying, or want to shoot tbese distances, a proper built arrow works amazing wonders.
And none of the long range arrows weigh less than 400 grs.
aYup! And those Most Marvelous Missiles Big John builds are surely up to the task!
They are ALL I shoot, for a damn good reason.
They hit exactly where they are supposed to from 20 right through to 100 yards!
And I very much enjoy that, and Respect the Man who built them for me & my obsession! :wink:

Cheers,
Nog
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

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