Chinese made broadheads

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SEW
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Re: Chinese made broadheads

Post by SEW » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:53 am

Graham,
Very informative post. Thanks.

The metal looks significantly different with the generic Rages. The finish isn’t as smooth.
They spin test as well. Weight consistency is as good. Functioning is as good. Same sharpness after sharpening a little. Retaining rings are not as good - spin testing. Spin well after putting on real Rage rings.
The screw in part was different from the real Rage.

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galamb
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Re: Chinese made broadheads

Post by galamb » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:59 pm

That was kinda my point. There is no doubt that some were "reverse engineered". Others come in exactly the same packaging.

We ordered about a half dozen fleabay broadheads to compare to the "real stuff" right from the wholesaler.

In particular the (chinese) NAP products showed up in the "factory packaging" - comparing them side by side they didn't knock off anything they simply ran "everything" that they were shipping to the NAP importer. It wasn't "knocked off" packaging it was identical - likewise, the broadheads were identical in every respect.

So in that case I had two "identical" products, side by side. One cost me $27 from the wholesaler the other cost $6 (including the shipping) from the Chinese Ebay store.

Do you ever notice that you never see G5 knock off heads coming from China? They are made in the US. They obviously haven't been reverse engineered "yet" which seems a little odd since they do hold a fair bit of the market share. You tend to see "knock off's" of heads that are manufactured in China for the companies.

Or perhaps that means that China is no longer "reverse engineering", instead they are just (stealing) the very products that they are manufacturing. Why set up a plant to knock something off when you already have the plant set up to make the product in the first place.

I am not advocating for buying directly from the Chinese. But I also don't think it's fair that just because G5 has to charge 40 bucks for a pack of heads because all of their production costs are domestic that another brand rips us off for that same 40 bucks, because that's what the market will bear, on a product that they could charge 12 or 14 bucks for and make as much per unit as G5.

Making products offshore only seems to be good for the company selling them, the savings sure aren't being passed off to the consumer to any degree, at least when they are competing with domestic made product.
Graham

Vix II, VixenMaster flemish/S5, 20" GT Laser II's - 100 gr Dead Ringer Stiletto II's (394 grains - 22.5% F.O.C.) @272 FPS

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Re: Chinese made broadheads

Post by venison » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:48 pm

When I shoot my deer with a Chinese broadhead they all seem to die just as quick ...As one that says made in America ..The major issue I have is why spend 44 $$$ for rage hypo or extremes doesn't make sense to me when the blades are 15 $$ just to replace them I'm all set with the math today I'll keep buying 4dozen broad heads 48 $$$$$ when they hit the dirt I throw them away : :lol: :lol: :lol:

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scope422
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Re: Chinese made broadheads

Post by scope422 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:43 am

I'm guilty of shooting chinese broadheads. I have used the mechanicals in the past with success but I bounce back and forth between mechanicals and fixed blade. Hit one in the shoulder and lost it with a rage 2 years ago, little penetration, my fault, not the broadheads. Went back to old faithful thunderheads but this year I tried a fixed blade that I was very impressed with. I am sharpening challenged but found I can get a real good edge with these by using 3 levels of sandpaper, from slightly course to fine (600 grit to 1200), on a flat surface. Just lay the broadhead on the paper and do small circles. These flew like darts from my crossbow and penetration was incredible. Never tried them beyond 40 yards but up to that distance they are very accurate in my crossbow. I slammed the plywood behind my target quite a few times and I did brake one only when trying to remove it. It cracked on the back of one of the blades while I was swinging the arrow around trying to get it out. Other then that they never broke when shooting them. Got a deer this year with one and only had to give the tip a couple strokes with a file and was able to sandpaper sharpen back to shootable again. I'm all for buying american but they work well at a fraction of the price.

This is what I used:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3blades-black-widow-arrow-shooting-hunting-broad-heads-100GR-for-Archery/252621879719?hash=item3ad16ff9a7:m:m0hnGVZH956YW10TKFpB2ow
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wheelie
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Re: Chinese made broadheads

Post by wheelie » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:14 pm

Are their any Canadian made broadheads? As Canadians we should do our part of keeping our money here at home. Shop Canadian. No Canadian makers I guess it is China knock offs for me. Bring our jobs back home. :wink:

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Re: Chinese made broadheads

Post by Bullzeye » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:06 pm

Kev, If Canadian retailers would stop hosing us, id be happy to buy Canadian. Think about it, when our dollar was on par with the US, for quite a few years I might add, do you know of any stores that reduced their prices???? Now, as soon as our dollar went in the crapper, all the stores raised their prices, blaming it on the dollar. We just keep taking it in the azz, as the retailers keep screwing us. Greed is a terrible thing, and it's what's eventually going to kill mNy Canadian stores.
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Re: Chinese made broadheads

Post by janesy » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:43 am

Bullzeye wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:06 pm
Kev, If Canadian retailers would stop hosing us, id be happy to buy Canadian. Think about it, when our dollar was on par with the US, for quite a few years I might add, do you know of any stores that reduced their prices???? Now, as soon as our dollar went in the crapper, all the stores raised their prices, blaming it on the dollar. We just keep taking it in the azz, as the retailers keep screwing us. Greed is a terrible thing, and it's what's eventually going to kill mNy Canadian stores.
I am a canadian retailer. That statement couldn't be further from the truth. You probably think canadian retailers are sleeping on matresses full of cash too. :roll:
What is the truth, keep buying cheap knockoff products. Thats the ONLY way to guarantee a price increase on domestic products US or Canadian.
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Re: Chinese made broadheads

Post by Boo » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:04 am

janesy wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:43 am
Bullzeye wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:06 pm
Kev, If Canadian retailers would stop hosing us, id be happy to buy Canadian. Think about it, when our dollar was on par with the US, for quite a few years I might add, do you know of any stores that reduced their prices???? Now, as soon as our dollar went in the crapper, all the stores raised their prices, blaming it on the dollar. We just keep taking it in the azz, as the retailers keep screwing us. Greed is a terrible thing, and it's what's eventually going to kill mNy Canadian stores.
I am a canadian retailer. That statement couldn't be further from the truth. You probably think canadian retailers are sleeping on matresses full of cash too. :roll:
What is the truth, keep buying cheap knockoff products. Thats the ONLY way to guarantee a price increase on domestic products US or Canadian.
James, just a question and im not baiting.
If retailers stared to buy from the Chinese more often and marked it up with the same margin as you would have made by buying the original, wouldn't you and the end user be ahead? Do you think the manufacturers start lowering their prices? Sort of like a boycott?
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janesy
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Re: Chinese made broadheads

Post by janesy » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:28 am

In theory yes, but its not like we make 25% on demestic and 50% on imports . In the vast majority of products are already purchased or manufactured over seas, and have been for decades, so the margins are the same as demestic. Knock off products arent coming from those sources, as stated earlier in the thread. And if the product itself isnt manufactured over there, the raw material is. I dont know of a retailer buying and selling knockoffs.

Heres whats happening right now. Sonotubes, for decking are going to skyrocket in price. Because we have been exporting our cardboard recycling over seas for years. Now we dont do that, and we are having to buy back the cardboard raw material back from China at an inflated price. This will also apply to every product you purchase thaf comes in a box.


Ill give you an example from friday last week.
Broan/Newtone ceilig fan. USA model, I can order it. It'll take 3 months, I have to pay exchange, full shipping, and brokerage everytime. Customer can order off amazon, and skip most of the above. Saves $100.
Thats not $100 that would have gone into my pocket, and frankly by the time the box gets here the dollar is 5% higher(or lower but when does that happen) and we take that on the chin.

Retailers dont get "free shipping for the next 12 hours"

You see it every day Don, white box parts. The general public just wants to save that $1. Who cares if it cost them $10 next year.
Last edited by janesy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Chinese made broadheads

Post by janesy » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:33 am

The other side of that coin, is when an offshore knock off product fails, oh well it was a knockoff. Good while it lasted.

But if a retailer bought and sold that same product...
Get ready for your crusification.
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galamb
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Re: Chinese made broadheads

Post by galamb » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:36 pm

There is a huge misunderstanding about "how much" an actual brick/mortar retailer actually makes. People hear about Apple making billions and assume the phone store in the mall is doing as well.

Our "break even" point - or "not for profit" if you like is a margin of 12.5%. That's what it costs us for rent, utilities, wages, transaction fees, compliance, taxes (business and employment) etc. So if a product costs us $100 "wholesale" if we sell it for $112.50 we break even.

Last year on just on $14 million in gross sales we made just over $222,000 in profit - that is hardly the "mark-up" that the general public thinks exists.

There is a number of people in the (food chain) that get their wack at the product before it ever goes on the shelf.

I can source a container load of "widgets" directly from China. If they cost me $5 each and I order 1000 that is a $5000 load.

To get it from China to Vancouver or Long Beach it will cost me $2000 - that's to have the container loaded on a ship and the trip across the Pacific.

Once it hits our shores that's when the "gouging" starts. The company that unloads the container from the ship charges $800 to crane it off and put it on a flatbed train car. The port charges a percentage of the load value for their handling fees.

So by the time it's unloaded at the docks the cost per widget has doubled.

Then to get that container from the West Coast to say Ontario, it will cost another $6500 for that one sea container on a rail car.

Then it has to be unloaded and trucked to a warehouse ($1000), sorted, stored, re-picked into smaller loads (20% of value) and shipped to the retail location (4-6% of value within the same province).

(my numbers are not "exact" but a darn close - I have done a lot of logistics over the years and the numbers are representative).

So now those (originally) $5K worth of widgets finally gets to the store at a total cost of $17,150 - so they went from $5/ea to $17.15/ea "wholesale/landed/transported" - I tack on my 20% and they go on the shelf for $20.59.

If the product landed at ABC supply, in "their packaging" they would tack on "their cut", sell it to me for $26 and I would sell it for $31.25.

You look on amazon and the C.H.Ina company is selling them for $10/shipped each and you say "that retailer is ripping me off". Which is not the case. The C.H.Ina company that paid 5 bucks to mfg, a buck or two to mail it overseas and paid amazon their cut of a buck fifty (or whatever) is making more than the retailer you are complaining about. They have simply cut out all the middle men in the process.

And despite all those intermediate "costs" it is still cheaper than manufacturing here due to labour costs, energy costs, other costs of running the plant all the compliance etc.
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Re: Chinese made broadheads

Post by janesy » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:39 pm

Not to mention you had to order those "Widgettes" in March to get them on shelves by Christmas and hope to heck they are still a desirable commodity when they land
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Re: Chinese made broadheads

Post by Boo » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:36 am

An old rule of thumb in business is that retail has to have a 30% profit over all on products sold to remain healthy and reasonably profitable. What you guys are describing is why so many shops (in general) are closing their doors.
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Re: Chinese made broadheads

Post by janesy » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:48 am

Boo wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:36 am
An old rule of thumb in business is that retail has to have a 30% profit over all on products sold to remain healthy and reasonably profitable. What you guys are describing is why so many shops (in general) are closing their doors.
It's the "race to the bottom" in building material Don.

But I'm ice fishing right now, so it can't be all that bad hahaha
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Re: Chinese made broadheads

Post by Back strap » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:57 pm

Be proud of your heritage. Whether it be Canadian or American. Stand up for your country. Whether it cost a little bit more or not. Over a hundred years 3rd generation Union boilermaker
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