Sighting in Diablos off a bench (frustrating)

[janesy]

I can’t help it. I’m obsessed. I ordered 6 zombie slayers from wyvern so that I can find zero. Then I can index my Diablos to that. I just hope they can get here by the weekend.

welcome to the club. I'd love to tell you it gets easier, but you'll see right through me hahaha

[Montana Mark]

Yes. I’ve got it bad. Might be a mixture of cabin fever and spring fever but crossbows have been pretty consuming for me. They are pretty fascinating. A mixture of art and science. I never got too worked up about guns. Just grab them out of the safe and go. I definitely like archery better.

[Montana Mark]

FYI, buying Zombies will not necessarily achieve the results you seek. The factory assembled arrows are not spine indexed. Even if they were or even if someone locates the spine on a shaft that you assembled yourself, all you have is a dynamically indexed arrow. Static spine is a different story.
I can locate the static spine using a Ram Tester and the Firenock tester and fletch a vane on that mark. Shooting the arrow may prove that you need to use another fletching as the cock vane. There is no 100% reliable way of locating the dynamic spine. One of the reasons is that the spine is not normally linear, it normally winds itself around a shaft. Also, when you put a shaft on a Ram Tester, it is not unusual to see 2 or sometimes more stiff spots on the shaft, each one effecting the flight of the arrow.
Try shooting each arrow and then consider the largest group of arrows the norm. Then try another vane on the other shafts. If that doesn't work, try another group of arrows (if there is one) as the norm. Don't think that you won't have to cull some arrows. Its a fact of life.

Thanks. It sounds very complicated. I figured I would spin and mark the Zombies (which might be closer to zero) and sight in with them. That way I would feel like I was close. Then I will spin and mark the (#36) Diablos I have, marking the cock feather that is closest to zero. Since I had a 2” spread with the Diablos using random arrows/feathers, I feel like I have no idea what zero is. By finding a close approximation of zero and sorting my Diablos to that, I hope can tighten my groups to 1”.

I understand I could get better groups if I found 4 arrows that flew weird high and right and 4 arrows that flew wierd low and left but I don’t think I have the patience to do that. I think I’d have to hire a computer programmer to sort my arrows that way. I’m just going to find (close to) zero with the Zombies and pick the cock vane on my Diablos that hits closest to that and call it good.

Now that I (sort of) understand, I’m not knocking the Diablos. I just need to get them figured out. Besides, I’ve got 36 of them and I want to make them useful.

[Montana Mark]

So, I went out and did a little spinning and shooting tonight. Not ready to mark cock vanes yet. Just getting a feel for it. First checked if everything was tight. I shot the first vane twice to confirm I was shooting in the same hole. I shot 8 arrows on each vane (24 shots). I shot the last vane twice to confirm I was shooting in the same hole. I probably averaged 2” 3 shot groups (using the same arrow). 2 arrows had 4” groups and one had close to a 1” group. I hit the bullseye twice but do not take credit because it was just a vane randomly hitting it. Boy, finding the cock vane on 36 arrows is going to be a chore. (Good thing I like shooting the bows.) I won’t give up. I’ll get them sorted out.

Since spring bear season is only a few weeks away, I might just sort out the zombies (for the bear hunt) and practice shooting offhand (and get a rangefinder).

That brings up another question. Since i’ll have 300 grain zombies (with 110 grain inserts), would using my 150 grain bolt cutters work well on it? The arrow would weigh 450 grains and be pretty heavy FOC. I think I’ll have to start another thread.

[janesy]

If your going to group 36 arrows, I think the first order of business would be to set up a proper, or at least more consistent shoot bench. No doubt a tractor seat is stable, but there's no way you can stay comfortable and replicate the same shooting possition over that length of time.

One other thing to consider would be breaking down the arrows in smaller groups and sort them that way. I think before I started trying to sort cock vanes and group sizes if I was starting with 36 arrows would be to quickly weed out any flyers or arrows with obvious inconsistencies and narrow down the field then start.
I don't have very much experience sorting factory arrows, and the advice above us all solid, but I think most people would agree that a 4" group is rare and you've probably got a flyer in the mix there.
Could also be worth double checking your trigger mounting fasteners and or scope mounts.

[Montana Mark]

The snow is melting. I’ll set up a table and chair and stiff pillow on a dry spot of the driveway. I think I’ll just do a quiver full (4) arrows at a time and toss aside the real bad flyers.

[Montana Mark]

I think I am beginning to understand. I spun and marked 4 arrows and was able to get 3 to group within 1/2” of each other. With turret adjustments, I was able to reproduce this and get them touching (separate) 1/2 inch circles on the target. I couldn’t get the 4th arrow close so I grabbed a couple other arrows and got one 1/4 inch away. I was able to shrink my groups from 2” to 1/2-3/4” by spinning and marking cock vanes.

I said earlier that archery is a mixture of art and science. Now I realize that it is also deeply philosophical and possibly even spiritual. As I spun and marked arrows, I was contemplating “what, really, is zero”, “what is the true meaning of zero”, “does zero really exist”. I felt very surreal and existential as I shot arrows, spun them and marked them. I thought “maybe zero is different for everybody/bow” and that maybe zero is not a fixed concrete thing but actually a figment of our imagination that we try to hold onto to give us a sense of security. Really, if you think about it “zero is what you make it”.

Even though I felt like I grew in my understanding of arrows and archery through tonight’s exercise, I still seek out more wisdom. Therefore, I am waiting for “The Wise Men” to come. I am still waiting for my Zombie Slayers to come by FedEx so they can teach me the “True Meaning of Zero”. Only then can I come to a clear understanding. It will be a Nirvana and I will be Enlightened. The wise Zombie Slayers will get here and they will be tell me the zero by which all other zero’s can be compared.

BTW. Having a beer really helped me sort my arrows and “understand” everything. And, i’m still using my tractor bench (still a lot of snow here).

[Ferguson Outfitters]

I am so sorry you are having all of these troubles bro. My diablos are accurate, never spun or weighed a head in my life. My factory excalibur setup is akin to my M-77 All-weather and off the shelf Federal Blue Box...Dependable, accurate, and deadly.

Someone else did the “Art & Science” for me.

[Montana Mark]

I am so sorry you are having all of these troubles bro. My diablos are accurate, never spun or weighed a head in my life. My factory excalibur setup is akin to my M-77 All-weather and off the shelf Federal Blue Box...Dependable, accurate, and deadly.

Someone else did the “Art & Science” for me.

Ferguson my friend. You expressed true empathy and I thank you. You would be good at my job (shrink). You could tell by my last post that I am starting to get a little psychotic about my problem and you had empathy for me. (BTW, I shoot the same gun and bullets.)

Not only do I think archery is art, science, philosophy and spirituality, I’m starting to think it’s a a bit of black magic. Perhaps if I start clapping my hands, pulling my ear, whispering spells and sprinkling dust the arrows will shoot strait.

I don’t think the problem is me (or my tractor bench). I don’t think it is my bow or the (affordable/cheap) scope. If I shoot the same arrow with the same cock feather, I hit the same hole every time. I will tune my arrows 4 at a time and will probably have a few squirrel arrows that won’t match any of the groups. When my sons and I shoot together, the arrows will be marked so we don’t mix them up.

Despite my frustrations, I am having fun (and the beer helped). But it’s time to get serious as Bear season is 3 weeks away. I will sight in my Zombies and plan my hunt.

[CBRon]

Mark, How are those diablos fletched, straight or offset ?? You could refletch with helical, with blazers .. and square up your inserts.. they should fly good..

[Montana Mark]

I don’t know much about the Diablos other than they are the ones that came with the bows and I bought a bunch more to have fun shooting with figuring my sons would abuse them (heck the ones I’m using are getting quite beat up with all the shooting I’m doing.) perhaps this summer, after a bunch of fletchings and nocks are beat up, i’ll take them to the bow shop and have them refletched and worked on. (After finding all the cock vanes, I’ll make sure the don’t lose those) (or mix up my groups of 4 that have the same zero).

I realize I am getting my hopes up about Zombie Slayers, but if they are awesome, I will get a bunch more of them.

[Normous]

Have you removed the (2) stock to mainframe screws and cheked the (2) trigger to mainframe screws?

If those (2) trigger unit mount screws are even slightly loose you might loose your hair.

[Ferguson Outfitters]

And to think I am a retired (g)od of war diagnosed from the DSM as Extreme Narcissistic with Hyper vigilance, and PTSD. I also test using Briggs/Myers as an INTJ. I’m not allowed to work with other humans because I’m something called “Deep V”, the “V” something about Volcano. Maybe we can have internet therapy so you can fix me.

It would be impossible for me to actually feel “empathy” as I’m supposedly just emulating the response.

I’m doing a study, most I know that call themselves a shrink or use the term nuthouse are actually MD’s, you?

My three theme songs, “behind blue eyes”, tears of a clown, Hair of the dog

I do hope you get its straight, sometimes our passions are quirky and eccentric.

If you come to a fourway stop sign at the exact same time as other drivers, who goes last?

Peace !

I am so sorry you are having all of these troubles bro. My diablos are accurate, never spun or weighed a head in my life. My factory excalibur setup is akin to my M-77 All-weather and off the shelf Federal Blue Box...Dependable, accurate, and deadly.

Someone else did the “Art & Science” for me.

Ferguson my friend. You expressed true empathy and I thank you. You would be good at my job (shrink). You could tell by my last post that I am starting to get a little psychotic about my problem and you had empathy for me. (BTW, I shoot the same gun and bullets.)

Not only do I think archery is art, science, philosophy and spirituality, I’m starting to think it’s a a bit of black magic. Perhaps if I start clapping my hands, pulling my ear, whispering spells and sprinkling dust the arrows will shoot strait.

I don’t think the problem is me (or my tractor bench). I don’t think it is my bow or the (affordable/cheap) scope. If I shoot the same arrow with the same cock feather, I hit the same hole every time. I will tune my arrows 4 at a time and will probably have a few squirrel arrows that won’t match any of the groups. When my sons and I shoot together, the arrows will be marked so we don’t mix them up.

Despite my frustrations, I am having fun (and the beer helped). But it’s time to get serious as Bear season is 3 weeks away. I will sight in my Zombies and plan my hunt.

[janesy]

So ya... How about those yankees?

[Montana Mark]

All of my screws are tight (except upstairs). And, Ferguson, you seem like a great guy. I was in the military too but never went to war. I was an Air Force psychiatrist.