broadhead question

[shawnhunts]

I am shooting a vixenII I am thinking about getting some spitfire crossbow 100gr. Any opinions? Which replacement head do I use?

[vixenmaster]

Spitfires are nice 100gr is a very good weight. I have used them fer yrs.

[amythntr]

Spitfires are nice 100gr is a very good weight. I have used them fer yrs.

X2....plus I love the fact that they have a practice BH that you can purchase separately!

Anthony

[galamb]

If they fly good for you AND you are keeping your shots "close" they should work fine with the Vix II (which I shoot as well).

The one thing you have to keep in mind when asking advice is that most of the guys/gals here are shooting "super bows" compared to ours.

A 355 Matrix has almost "double" the terminal power of the Vix II - Even the older Vortex's/Exomax's pack a "super thump" in comparison.

When you are shooting lower terminal weight you might be better served by shooting a "rear deploying" broadhead as opposed to a front deploying (spitfire) since contrary to all the ads, a front deploying mechanical does "eat up" more energy.

If you keep your shots in the 20/25 yard range there is no issue (my Vix has always got a pass thru - but I also don't shoot front deploying mechanicals).

Likewise, there are a couple of heads that take a fair bit of thump to get them to deploy (Meat Seekers and G5 T3's are at the top) plus others that do not penetrate as well as others (Rage 2's may not be a problem if you are hitting with 90 lbs of KE but at 50'something you may not get a pass thru).

Stuff to consider when you are shooting a slow (sub 270 fps at the muzzle) bow which has already dropped off to 240'ish fps/51-53 foot pounds at 20 yards - you need all the "umph" you can get for a pass through.

What arrows are you shooting? A heavier (390 grains plus including head) will give you more "whompability" than a 325-375 with a front deploying mechanical...

(should have added that I am a huge fan of NAP broadheads, this one is just not near the top of the list of what I would shoot from a Vixen II)

[paulaboutform]

I love my toxic broadheads as well as slick tricks but can't comment on the performance from lower poundage bows. As galamb said they'd be fine at close range for sure. Another broadhead I've heard great things about is the magnus stinger and buzzcut with bleeders. These are cut on contact and I've heard are some of the best penetrating and accurate broadheads around.

[b44mag]

oh lamb you got me cracking up "whompability"

[shawnhunts]

Thank you all for some very good information.

[Twohats]

I use Magnus Stingers and Magnus II's fixed and for me on my M330 they are very accurate to to 25-30 yards and every deer has been pass throughs and they weigh in at 473,total arrow and the stingers I use are 125 and the Mag II's are as well. I am a Recurve shooter and these are what I have always used and results have been awesome plus I have bunch of them..Ginve em a try I think you would like them.

[Hunt it]

Out of older bows you will find the 150 gr Bolt Cutter by Excalibur is one of the most accurate out there. 3 blade non mechanical, won't let you down. The extra FOC weight is a big help with energy and accuracy.

[Shyoldman]

I am relatively new to c/b hunting. Just a few turkeys,no deer yet.However it makes me curious why it takes more for a passthru with a c/b than a vertical? Having spent 10 years mentoring kids shooting 40lbs,around 20 lbs ke, and they get pass thru's.
Explain please, deer are not that tough where I live.

[Kegbelly]

I am relatively new to c/b hunting. Just a few turkeys,no deer yet.However it makes me curious why it takes more for a passthru with a c/b than a vertical? Having spent 10 years mentoring kids shooting 40lbs,around 20 lbs ke, and they get pass thru's.
Explain please, deer are not that tough where I live.

Generally speaking crossbows shoot much shorter arrows than vertical bows, so the shorter arrows are usually a lot lighter unless you purposely build heavy xbow arrows. Speed, momentum, KE, all those are directly affected by arrow weight. I agree though, it doesn't take that much energy to get a pass through on deer when hit in the right place, but more is always better
Edit to add... my personal opinion is that broadhead choice also plays a big role in all this... lots of guys shoot mechanicals with huge blades. That's great, shoot em if you like em. But it takes a lot more energy to push a 2-inch wide blade through an animal that it does say 1 1/8" wide blade. That's why people use knives to stab, not cleavers. And a lot of mechanicals have a "chisel tip" which IMHO isn't much better than a field point. For max penetration and complete pass throughs, it's still hard to beat a sharp COC head.

[galamb]

Yes, while KE (kinetic energy) is used as the standard with crossbows it only tells a little bit of the story.

The momentum of a 28-31" arrow, even a light one generates more slug force than a shorter arrow hitting with a higher KE. (and yes, I get pass thru's with my recurve with a terminal KE in the high 30's, but the arrow is almost 500 grains and 31" long)

Once the longer heavier arrow is in "motion", despite hitting with less force, it takes longer for it to slow down.

I am paraphrasing poorly here but the physics of it comes down to - you are more likely to get a pass thru with a longer heavier arrow than a short light one, even if the longer one hits with half the KE of the shorter one (because the part of the arrow shaft that has "yet to penetrate" is still driving the tip forward without the effect of resistance on the shaft.

So, with the shorter arrow if you "pile the weight" forward it helps "pull" the arrow through as opposed to pushing the arrow through if it was longer.

I have found to get the best penetration with heavy (short - 20" bolts close to or above 400 grains) from low poundage crossbows if you go with crazy high FOC's (like plus 20% which is considered "extreme") you do not have penetration/pass thru issues.

If you go the "speed demon" route (and you CAN shoot a 325 grain arrow with the Vix), you will get more speed and more KE but less slug force AND more resistance to penetration.

If you are really interested in reading on the subject I would direct you to an excellent (although uber technical) article by a Dr. Ashby who did zillions of tests on arrow penetration.

You can find the article here http://www.tradgang.com/ashby/ in additon to a few other places.

There is a point where KE can overcome the resistance to a pass through simply because as you note a deer just isn't that tough, but the Vix II just doesn't make enough on it's own (unlike a Matrix 380 or 405 at close range).

[shawnhunts]

So, to optimize my vixen's performance ( out only to 25 yards) should I be shooting firebolts that came with the bow the lite package and 100 gr heads? I am trying to make sure I am reading the posts and all the info correctly.
Thank You,
Shawn

[galamb]

I have been shooting the Vix II for 4 or 5 years now and have a 25 yard range in my backyard.

I'm semi-retired so have lot's of time to "play around" and will admit I'm a bit of an arrow/broadhead "junkie" - I try a lot of different combinations.

Before the Vix I shot a 150 lb Horton that made even a little less speed so I have been shooting light stuff for a good number of years now.

The 150 bolt cutters work well with the factory bolts. The Firebolt arrows are almost exactly the same as the older version Easton bolts of the same length and weight in somewhere in the 260 grains (268 maybe).

With a 150 grain (head) you get an FOC of somewhere in the 15-16% range and a total arrow weight of 419'ish (if I'm remembering correctly).

I prefer to shoot a mechanical head and those are most 100 grains. So to retain a heavier arrow I switched to Gold Tip II's that have a 110 grain front insert. That combined with the 100 grain tip puts 210 grains (of my 394 total grain weight) right up front.

So, if you want use the factory bolts (or any of the lighter bolts) I would stick with a heavy broadhead - and the bolt cutters are fine broadheads and shoot great from the Vix out to 25 yards.

If after a while and a bunch of target shooting, if you want to try something else, just find a bolt to keep your total weight up near 400 grains - and with your light bow, heavier at the front end is better.

A number of bolts come with heavy inserts (Gold tip and Victory come immediately to mind).

That is the way I would go and then you can "tweak" as you move forward.

[vixenmaster]

So, to optimize my vixen's performance ( out only to 25 yards) should I be shooting firebolts that came with the bow the lite package and 100 gr heads? I am trying to make sure I am reading the posts and all the info correctly.
Thank You,
Shawn

I shot carved tip vixens fer yrs n had many pass-throughs. Almost all of my arrows started at 400 gr n went up to 560gr. I killed many a tick toter out to 30 yds wid'em I Spitfires 100gr also Rocket steelheads 100 gr, Montec 100gr, Stinger 100gr, SlickTricks 100gr