O/T Savage 10ML PRICING OUTRAGEOUS

[Carnivorous]

This year I got the chance to shoot a few rounds with a buddy that uses the Savage ML10 ii muzzleloader. I was really impressed with the accuracy and the no smoke and fouling of the smokless powder that I decided to try and get my hands on one of these ML10 GEMS. Well they stopped making them in 2012 and a few dealers have some special last production guns. They have cranked the price up ro close to $2000.00 or 3 times the original asking price. Needless to say that is way out of this guys budget. I am on a quest to find a good used one for a reasonable price. If anybody has lead to a good used ML10 ii let me know.

Jeff

[Normous]

Jeff, I think you might have to purchase an accurate grain scale first. A few individuals purchasing that Savage M/L and not reading the owners manual first confused Volume Measured and Grain Measured powder and blew up their barrels using excessive Smokeless Powder.

[8ptbuk]

Just happen to have one in the safe ! Had it for several years now and love it ! And Norms right ! You better watch what your doing carefully ! Heres a few pics of it and a chrono . First pic is one of two 8-pointers I shot with it this year .Recoil is awful at the speeds below !

[URL=http://s154.photobucket.com/user/1longb ... 9.jpg.html]

300gr
[URL=http://s154.photobucket.com/user/1longb ... r.jpg.html]
250gr
[URL=http://s154.photobucket.com/user/1longb ... r.jpg.html]

[Hunt it]

Cabelas Canada had a bunch awhile back for $900.00, 2 months ago, check with them.

[NewGuy]

Saw one on CGN the other day.
Edit: just looked and it appears to be gone. They sell quick on there.

[SEW]

I've used the 10ML and MZl-2 since before they come out: worked on loads with TB prior to introduction and for 2-3 years after. A little over 10,000 shots from 50 cal and 45 &40 cal variants . Have 6 of them(2 50s , 3 45s , 1 40). IE, been there, done that. Recoil doesn't have to be viscous. They are excellent guns; however, there are excellent, much lower cost alternatives. Primarily, H&R 45-70s converted to smokeless MLers. I own 2 custom built Sav 10ML-2 based 45 cals(lots of $s) yet routinely hunt with my H&R HandiRifle conversion with less than $500 in it except for the >$500 scope on it. 35g VV-110 or 40g 4759/195Barnes. 2400'/sec, sub MOA thru 200 yds. Very low recoil, light, inexpensive, preferable to 10ML-2 unless you want a really long range 45 cal sabotless boomer with LOTS of recoil.

PS There are a # of 45-70 guns available for conversion:Apex, Encore, Ruger#1, NEF, various H&R(at least 4 of these).

[Tennessee Rebel]

I've used the 10ML and MZl-2 since before they come out: worked on loads with TB prior to introduction and for 2-3 years after. A little over 10,000 shots from 50 cal and 45 &40 cal variants . Have 6 of them(2 50s , 3 45s , 1 40). IE, been there, done that. Recoil doesn't have to be viscous. They are excellent guns; however, there are excellent, much lower cost alternatives. Primarily, H&R 45-70s converted to smokeless MLers. I own 2 custom built Sav 10ML-2 based 45 cals(lots of $s) yet routinely hunt with my H&R HandiRifle conversion with less than $500 in it except for the >$500 scope on it. 35g VV-110 or 40g 4759/195Barnes. 2400'/sec, sub MOA thru 200 yds. Very low recoil, light, inexpensive, preferable to 10ML-2 unless you want a really long range 45 cal sabotless boomer with LOTS of recoil.

PS There are a # of 45-70 guns available for conversion:Apex, Encore, Ruger#1, NEF, various H&R(at least 4 of these).

X2. I have a stainless ML10 II and I'm thinking about a H&R conversion or a 45/70 barrel for my Encore. I love my Savage but the others are way lighter.

[8ptbuk]

I would love to have a .45 conversion also but don't like the much slower lock time of a hammer gun ! Big difference to me noticed shooting deer off handed going from a T/C hammer gun to my savage ! I also glass bedded mine and made a special tool so I don't have to remove the action screw to take out the breech plug .

[vixenmaster]

SEW made me do it, NEF 45-70 converted. I love mine, shot a 3/4" group on Mon at 45 yds wid mine. Groups will improve as i get it together. I have jus abit less than $500 in mine countin the ML & conversion, bullets sabots powder primers. Add in decent scope n rings brought value up anudder $250

[Tennessee Rebel]

What do yall do for a ramrod with your H&R

[Jray]

This is what I use at the range....
http://www.amazon.com/Thompson-Center-U ... B000YBSMQE
And this is what I carry in my pack...
http://www.spinjag.com/g3ramrod.php
I have two custom SS 10ML 2's. One with a .458 Pacnor barrel that I shoot sabot-less using a smooth Swinglock die and one that has a .451 Pac barrel that I shoot sabotless with a fullform Swinglock. Don't worry about the recoil.....use a Sled at the range and you never feel anything shooting at game. Shoot a 300gr at over 2600 fps. The real problem comes when you shoot at game that is less than 200 yds away

[SEW]

I started with smokeless MLing in the later 90s. Used 250g & 300g XTPs. They are a lot like F-4 Phantoms : put a big enough engines on them and they'll acceletate quickly and go fast. A lot like a brick with big engines. XTPs are the same. Now we have much better bullets (275,300,327 g Master Hunters; Lukes 310g, Barnes TMZs, etc). Now they can go fast and stay relatively fast.
So I started hotrodding the loads(duplexes), shooting 300+ yards, especially with the 45 cal conversions and hunting more open areas. Killed deer way out there. However, not big deer. They were in the thick stuff. Last 3 years, I've gone back to shorter range stuff and am back to killing big deer. Where I hunt now, Xbows are plenty long range enough(but I long range xbow hunt compared to some).
A couple of pictures of deer killed with 45 cal Savs. Both under 100 yds but shooting 200SSTs @appx2600'/sec(that's not very fast for these load wise -2800-3000'/sec is fairly fast).
My son


Me. My back yard(100 acres)

So I've come full circle and am back to a 2400'/sec load out of a HandiRifle with 35g VV-110/195 Barnes, a 200 yd+ load; yet, have a 350+ yd load in a 10ML-2 with a 275 MH 12/58 duplex load. Rarely ever carry the latter.

[Jray]

With a gun it's how far can I hit em and with a bow it's how close can I get em. Only does go in my freezer. Don't fool with bucks unless I'm giving the meat away.

[SEW]

With a gun it's how far can I hit em and with a bow it's how close can I get em. Only does go in my freezer. Don't fool with bucks unless I'm giving the meat away.

Jray,
To each his own. I get appx 2 days a year to "gun" hunt and 5 months a year to "bow" hunt. This is due to our extremely restricted ML/SG season where I live. I shot my 1st bow deer in 1957. Started MLing in 1963. Think about this. Consider where MLers have gone from 1963 to now: appx 50 yds to over 400 yds with 200 being considered normal. However, people feel bows should stay back at extremely short ranges, comparatively. My 1957 shot was appx 15 yds with <150'/sec. I'm now shooting 391'/sec with extreme accuracy, a scope, Lazer range finder, excellent rest, etc. It's about all I hunt with. Now just why should I see just how close I can get? Why should I see just how far I can shoot a deer with a gun? Actually, I hunt generally where a 100 yd shot is not possible, often not 50 yds, but sometimes. Since I'm virtually constrained to hunt with a bow, should I be forced to hunt as close as possible even though my M405 can very ethically reach way out there? Very ethically. 182 deer killed, 5 losses(3 with MLer over 25 years ago, only 2 bow losses, over 100 bow kills). I seriously don't believe longer range hunting with a bow by a prepared, disciplined hunter necessarily means non-ethical hunting.
Concerning deer meat quality, non-stressed deer when shot, quickly gutted, washed out well, hung at proper temp 3-4 days, then well processed should be very good regardless of sex or age. Of course, on average a yearling is the best. We have a yearling doe, 9-pt and a 12-pt(both over 200#) in our freezer. Can't tell them apart.

[vixenmaster]

I let my huntin area dictate how far i can shoot my deer. My new ML would allow easy 200 yd range, my place allows maybe 60 yds tops. My Crossbows can reach 60 yds. So i feel comfortable killin deer out to 60 yds any day of the week with my crossbows.