2016 Models - Not impressed.

[Tom]

Tom, you need to get out there and actually handle and shoot a a 330, 310 or ifrizzly.

Don I have shot the Micro 335, Matrix 355 (which I used at Boofest shoot last year), Exomag, Relayer Y25, Vixen, and a Phoenix.

The only bow which has even peaked my intrest enough to even think of getting another bow ( if I could afford one) is the micro. This bow has great balance and feel, but I would not like to shoot it a lot as it is a work out.

There is a trade off with these new bows and they are nice. I just like to old school by hand cocking my bows. These newer bows just can't be done easily, like you can with the lighter bows.

Tom

[tomcat]

I'm all for making them more Compact & Faster( as I'm sure everyone here wants as well)...The point is that the QA /Testing of these new designs needs to be emphasized on the new models to return the reputation for dependability...

I don't understand why the general thinking is that the 405 was not adequately tested. Do you really think Excalibur put that bow out there....the fastest bow....the pushing the envelop bow.....first recurve over 400fps bow.....without first testing the crap out of it? If anything, this would be the design most tested as it is the worst case limb scenario.
There are a ton of 405s out there with no problems. Even if the limb failure rate is 5% (which it is not according to Excal) 95% of the bows are fine. Now they find a way to stay at 400fps while reducing limb stress due to a new riser design and "Powerload" limbs. Of course you bring that to market as an improvement....and it has no bearing on the 405.

What makes sense...the only thing that makes sense......is a process problem with the fabrication of the limbs. Because IF it were a design issue:

a) the failure rate would be very high (it wouldn't be IF the limbs fail, but when)
b) any limb process issues would have really made the situation worse.

As an engineer who has done production for years, I can tell you that any time the pressure to ship goes up (as in this case with suddenly unprecedented high sales volumes) issues pop up. Issues you never knew were there. Just like higher speed points out problems in an arrow that flies fine at a lower speed.....speed in manufacture points out ....and let's you improve.....your process.

So they get the limb process back up to snuff, toss any limbs that are in stock but suspect, make new ones and replace any that break under warranty. Yes, it would be nice if they could track limb fab lot to bow SN but the bows do not have SNs, and I see no lot info on the limbs. So that ain't gonna happen....but adding that type of tracking info would be a suggestion from me to Excal.

Ideas like this are exactly the kind of thinking that needs injected into the mfg process from a QA standpoint going forward. Having the ability to isolate issues by assigning lot #'s and other identifiers would be just what is needed. to nip this in the butt and preserve or minimize the issue at hand...as there will be issues.

[Squirrel]

Is everyone seeing what I'm seeing in these pictures:







There is only one bolt holding the riser in place instead of two? These bows are 260-280 lbs of draw weight and they reduced the number of bolts holding the riser in place. Excalibur has lost its marbles. What happens if that single bolt fails while you are cocking the bow?

Adios muchachos, say hello to the riser smashing you in the face.

[ComfyBear]

Is that the first time you've noticed that there is only one bolt holding the riser. I guess you don't own a Micro 335, since last year's model riser also has only one bolt.

[nchunterkw]

Is everyone seeing what I'm seeing in these pictures:







There is only one bolt holding the riser in place instead of two? These bows are 260-280 lbs of draw weight and they reduced the number of bolts holding the riser in place. Excalibur has lost its marbles. What happens if that single bolt fails while you are cocking the bow?

Adios muchachos, say hello to the riser smashing you in the face.

Many 100's of shots on my one bolt riser "vintage" Micro and yet my face is perfectly fine......well, maybe not fine but the riser hasn't smashed into it yet.

Squirrel....you just earned a "C'mon MAN!" Do you really think something like that could happen? Seriously? Do you have any idea what mechanical design software is like nowadays? Stresses and such and analyzed by computers far better than back in the day. And in the world of litigation that we live in...things like this are tested and re-tested and then tested to death.

[Boo]

There is only one bolt holding the riser in place instead of two? These bows are 260-280 lbs of draw weight and they reduced the number of bolts holding the riser in place. Excalibur has lost its marbles. What happens if that single bolt fails while you are cocking the bow?

Adios muchachos, say hello to the riser smashing you in the face.

The main reason for the bolt is to hold the riser down on the mainframe so that riser can push against the end of the mainframe. While there may be some shear force on the bolt it really doesn't do the kind of work you think it does.

[Squirrel]

I understand what you guys are saying, but I don't feel comfortable using a 260 lbs plus recurve crossbow with only one bolt holding the riser in place, that's why I have a 355 and Vortex. All of the Exo and Matrix bows have two bolts holding the riser. That's the safer option.

[nchunterkw]

You just mentioned that you just now found out that the Micros had 1 bolt holding on the riser, so I doubt that played a part in your decision to order a 355 or Vortex. Still, it's up to you to choose what bow you shoot...and you have chosen 2 really great ones.

However, you can not say that 2 bolts over 1 is "safer". Using that logic then 3 bolts or 4 would be even better, or even better yet the rail/riser should be made from one piece of Aluminum....or even better yet Titanium because that is stronger. In your mind , 1 bolt is an issue, so that makes it real to you, and that is fine. A man needs so be totally comfortable with his weapon. But rest assured that you can fire a "1 bolt bow" 1000's of times and not have the riser come off.

And I'm not trying to start a pi$$ing contest either......just trying to keep inaccurate info in it's place. Many "new to crossbow" folks come on here looking for answers, and they deserve accurate ones. Micro bows are as safe to use as any other bow in the Excal lineup.

[Buszone]

Keith,

Spot on ! lots of newbies on here looking for information as I was at one time. So accurate statements are critical The 1 bolt is the last thing to worry about heck there are only 2 bolts holding my model 70 338 win mag on the stock and I have never thought about the barrel and action flying apart

[nasko]

High grade bolts can hold a lot. In fact most vehicle front suspensions are held by one ball-joint bolt per side.

[Flecha]

Growing up we had a Citroen DS19. The wheels each have one lug nut in the center. One. A car waaaay ahead of it's time (lookitup).

[Normous]

No worries, the Micro uses a single beefier 3/8" mainframe to riser bolt compared to the twin 5/16" bolt on the older models.

The 3/8" is on tough bolt that will handle the chore.

[Foxinthehenhaus]

No worries, the Micro uses a single beefier 3/8" mainframe to riser bolt compared to the twin 5/16" bolt on the older models.

The 3/8" is on tough bolt that will handle the chore.

Normous and Boo
Thanks
Yours are good examples of great responses / explainations to properly address someone concerns.
They are both informative and reassuring to those that my have thought the same but were or have become reluctant to post for obvious reasons.

[Michiganhunter]

That one bolt will hold a 1000 lbs just the thread strength, double that at least for shear strength...If you want to worry look at the other end of the bow and observe the lowly string holding back 260 lbs. Even that string can hold I would think in excess of 400-500 lbs.

[Normous]

Looking at the new Micro riser photos it appears more material has been removed during the CNC process that will lighten the front end some compared to last years Micro riser.