Optimized speed tests : M380/405 & BD400

[SEW]

I did some more speed testing today after a little more forced, string stretching.
String weights on all bows were 99g+/-1g (wax differences). Arrow weight 397.0g

Length of string from end of riser to center of string:
M380 - 0.73"
M405 - 0.85"
BD400 - 2.02"

Average speed +/- +2/-1
M380 - 361'//sec (fac limb 98/98.5- with blems 103/103. 7'/sec faster , 368'/sec)
BD400 - 371'/sec (haven't had limbs off - rating?)
M405 - 391'/sec ( limbs 104/104, which were 2'/sec faster than the 103s).

Limbs make a big difference - up to 9'/sec from my testing.
String weight makes a significant difference.
Brace height significantly affects speed. Lower is not necessarily faster even though it gives a longer power stroke.

The redesigned limb mounting has its effect. The power stroke of the BD400 is slightly longer than the M405 but it is slower and surely much less stressed. I go on a 3 day bear hunt in the middle of nowhere each Sept. The BD400 will be the bow this year.
I need to remove the limbs of the BD400, replace with the blems(103 ea), and see what it does.

I hunt longer ranges. My walks to my stands are comparatively short (not over 1/2 mi normally and often only 200-300 yds and most of my stands have good shooting rests) so the M405 will likely be used most. The BD400 feels better balanced. I think it's Excal's best foot forward yet in the performance arena. (I really like the Vortex!!) I'd choose a BD400 over the M380. However, the M380 is great also. I cringe at the thought of 405 risers being cut down to M350SEs. I love my 405 also.

[ThunderXB]

Steve,

First, thanks for all the info and testing.

I have a question on the "blem" limbs.

You mention 103's and 104's.

?????

What are the differences and where do you get the numerical designation from?

Will all similarly numbered limbs perform the same?? ie. 103's are all alike and 104s are all alike??

Can you specifically order blem limbs by numerical designation?

When you order these blem limbs from Excal, can you specifically ask for limbs that will give you more speed?

Do ALL Excal blem limbs fit ALL Excal bows or do I need a specific set for my BD400?

When you say you "like the Vortex", is that the XBR?? (I have one in the box waiting to replace the Conquest.)

FINALLY, have you installed a trigger tech in you BD?? I had my trigger reworked via Excal, and while it's better, it's still not where I'd like it to be.

THANKS AGAIN!!!

[SEW]

Steve,

First, thanks for all the info and testing.

I have a question on the "blem" limbs.

You mention 103's and 104's.



?????


What are the differences and where do you get the numerical designation from?

Will all similarly numbered limbs perform the same?? ie. 103's are all alike and 104s are all alike??

Can you specifically order blem limbs by numerical designation?

When you order these blem limbs from Excal, can you specifically ask for limbs that will give you more speed?

Do ALL Excal blem limbs fit ALL Excal bows or do I need a specific set for my BD400?

When you say you "like the Vortex", is that the XBR?? (I have one in the box waiting to replace the Conquest.)

FINALLY, have you installed a trigger tech in you BD?? I had my trigger reworked via Excal, and while it's better, it's still not where I'd like it to be.

THANKS AGAIN!!!

When the limbs are off, you can read numbers written on the underside. These #s are for matching the limbs. Reportedly, these #s indicate the comparative stiffness of the limbs. Though I've repeatedly read that they're only relative to each other and not necessarily an indication of stiffness when compared to various limbs made at different times, my 104s are 2'/sec faster than my 103s which are 7'/sec faster than my 98/98.5s. So, in my case, the #s were directly proportional to stiffness in comparison to each other. My limbs were several years apart in age.

I asked for the stiffest blemished limbs they had available : got 103s. My M405 had 104s to start with, and my M380 came with 98/98.5 which turned out to be comparatively slow.

All Matrix xbows, including the BD400, use the same limbs. Incidentally, the brace height setting of 2" , as suggested by Peter, turned out to be the fastest. The factory, blue string was the fastest.

Vortex: a friend of mine bought a lightly used #200 Vortex with factory scope. Vixenmaster string was added (a work of art). Using Diablos and Boltcutters, the accuracy to 60 yards was uncanny. Excalibur has worked out their system!
I have his bow here for testing Boo's arrow fletching comparison testing.
So this Vortex is the Xbow, not the scope.

I have TT DS #2.5 on each of my Matrix xbows (380, 405) and am intentionally keeping my BD400 stock except for a wrapped stirrup, Optimizer/Duralyt 2-8 and DrS string bumpers. The trigger seems relatively acceptable to me; however, I'm going to eventually ask Boo to rework it.

Hope this helps.

[bigrak]

Great thread, THANKS!!

Thunder XB can elaborate on the trigger?
Thanks.

[ThunderXB]

Steve,

Thanks for the feedback, it helped a lot.

Bigrak,

To accommodate the "forward" geometry of the BD400, the trigger has changed from a "direct" connection to a "linkage" connection due the need to move the trigger assemble forward.

In my bow this created a lot of creep and a very "sticky" trigger.

I sent it in and Excal improved the trigger, but due to the design nature, at least in mine, there is still a lot of creep producing a long pull.

I have a Trigger Tech trigger I am thinking about putting in as a replacement to see if it helps.

Others have had some success with this.

[bigrak]

Steve,

Thanks for the feedback, it helped a lot.

Bigrak,

To accommodate the "forward" geometry of the BD400, the trigger has changed from a "direct" connection to a "linkage" connection due the need to move the trigger assemble forward.

In my bow this created a lot of creep and a very "sticky" trigger.

I sent it in and Excal improved the trigger, but due to the design nature, at least in mine, there is still a lot of creep producing a long pull.

I have a Trigger Tech trigger I am thinking about putting in as a replacement to see if it helps.

Others have had some success with this.

I have a BD400 on order, so I'm wondering what to anticipate.
Did you so send the complete bow back? They do anything to the linkage at all or just the trigger? If you install the trigger tech, let me know what the results are. I'm a little confused, the trigger and the linkage must both be two separate problems. In the 405 they improved the trigger, I'm wondering if they used the same trigger?
Thanks.

[SEW]

For what it's worth. The limbs on my BD400 each are labeled "57". I put on my blem limbs(103 ea) and gained 5'/sec with both 354g and 390g arrows. I switched strings around between my bows and got the fastest speeds ever from my 405: 354g arrow - 404'/sec and 389'/sec with 390g arrow. Very good!!

Shot the BD400 some. Std trigger: not up to the TTs in my 380 & 405 but is satisfactory to me. I'm thrilled with the bean field performance of the M405 but really like the fit and feel of the BD400 which is currently appx 10'/sec faster than my M380 (appx 5'/sec actual difference when same limbs on). I just prefer the fit and feel of the BD400.

[ThunderXB]

[/quote]I have a BD400 on order, so I'm wondering what to anticipate.
Did you so send the complete bow back? They do anything to the linkage at all or just the trigger? If you install the trigger tech, let me know what the results are. I'm a little confused, the trigger and the linkage must both be two separate problems. In the 405 they improved the trigger, I'm wondering if they used the same trigger?
Thanks.[/quote]


First, I'm tied up with other things right now so it will be a couple/3 weeks or so before I put the Trigger Tech in.

I had heard that TT was thinking about making a specific trigger for the BD400, but as of the last email I got from them, it sounds like that won't happen now.

Overall I like the BD400. Handles nice, shoots pretty good, IMHO cocks easy enough (but I'm 6' 7"/285 lbs.).

For me it was short in the stock and I am using the Excal stock extender with an extra 1 inch "custom" extension on it.

Because I'm currently using a HAA Optimizer I had to add an aftermarket (Voodoo) cheekpiece raiser to get enough height to get cheek weld for the scope.

But all that stuff has worked out.

When I sent it in for the warranty trigger work I took the limbs and the scope off and sent the frame/stock.

The trigger pull previously was NOT smooth and they fixed all of that.

It still does have a long pull/creep and that might be the nature of the linkage set-up, I'll know more when I change it out.

(Somewhere back a few weeks, June 5th, I did post some pics of my set up)

SEW helped me a lot in initial prep and set up, he is much more technically adept at this than I am.

[GrassyKnoll]

The thread with pics..

http://www.excaliburcrossbow.com/phpBB2 ... 54#p612954

Nice looking rig for sure....