DT10Sam
Very good questions.
The owner of Excalibur has seen it. That is why you are seeing this system on their bow. I love the Excalibur in the way it shoots and it's design. The recurve is better, in my opinion, than a compound. Why he chose not to do anything with it is probably for a few reasons. One reason for sure is politics. The other is that it's a change in culture the way most archers look at archery now. By the way, the owner shot 4 arrows in the same hole at 20 yards. He knows it works well.
As far as when you say don't fix something that isn't broke, I know the Excalibur bows are NOT broke. You have to look at it this way. Right now picture a crossbow, ANY crossbow, as a smooth bore flint-lock muzzle loader. When the rifled/ percussion cap models came out, what happened?
As I mentioned earlier, accuracy is something every archer should shoot for when shooting at a living animal. To say it's good enough does not make sense when there is a better way. Look at the difference between the old stick bow and the modern compound. Real big difference in the ability to be more accurate. While the modern compound bow is much more accurate than the old stick bow, what are most people shooting now? And they are still NOT shooting over 30 yards!
Would you like more accuracy from your Excalibur?
Moderator: Excalibur Marketing Dude
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designer 2
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A very interesting concept for sure. Looks like a lot of work and testing has gone into the design, and like any new design I'm sure there are advantages, and disadvantages. As far as the actual arrow, I can see where the design could be very accurate, and perhaps advantages if bone were struck. The point could pierce and perhaps shatter bone before the cutting blades made contact, lessening damage to the blades.
The questions that come to mind are:
-Have you tried longer arrows?
-Could one (of any length) with 3 blades be be developed to use in a conventional crossbow (without modifications to the crossbow)?
I know the perfect shot should not strike heavy bones, but unfortunately not all shots are perfect. I've seen shots go astray and strike shoulder bone which usually means a wounded and lost deer. That's never our goal as bowhunters, but it happens! Perhaps a design like this would increase the odds of at least disabling the deer enough for a killing shot opportunity?
The questions that come to mind are:
-Have you tried longer arrows?
-Could one (of any length) with 3 blades be be developed to use in a conventional crossbow (without modifications to the crossbow)?
I know the perfect shot should not strike heavy bones, but unfortunately not all shots are perfect. I've seen shots go astray and strike shoulder bone which usually means a wounded and lost deer. That's never our goal as bowhunters, but it happens! Perhaps a design like this would increase the odds of at least disabling the deer enough for a killing shot opportunity?
wabi
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designer 2
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wabi:
Thanks for the responce.
Wether people on this forum are for or against this design, or, understand it or not, I'd like to take the time to tell everyone how impressed I am of the very intelligent questions all of you have asked. I wish that all of the people in this sport were like the people here.
Thanks for the responce.
Wether people on this forum are for or against this design, or, understand it or not, I'd like to take the time to tell everyone how impressed I am of the very intelligent questions all of you have asked. I wish that all of the people in this sport were like the people here.
My mind is made up. Do not confuse me with the facts.
Looks like...
It looks like the bolt shooting through the NEW advertisement on the Excalibur home page. Maybe this is just a preview of things to come. I like the concept, and I am always looking to improve my chances for taking game in a quick and humane manner. Good luck with your design...Exohuntr
would you sell this as a "do it yourself" kit for existing xcal owners, if so what do you envision the final cost to be approximately? How much would the special bolts/darts costs, to me they seem like they would be easier to loose than the regular 20 inch bolts and I dont know about other people but Im on a bit of a budget already.
I know this is a bit off topic but wouldnt it be cool if the DoD would invest a few billion into developing laser guided arrows/bolts for handheld bows? I know thats a little sci-fi but just imagine....
I know this is a bit off topic but wouldnt it be cool if the DoD would invest a few billion into developing laser guided arrows/bolts for handheld bows? I know thats a little sci-fi but just imagine....
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BigBird-VA
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- Location: Chesapeake, VA.
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Herbinator
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designer 2
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Furor:
Sorry, no kit would be availiable. It's a design that's a ground up unit. The 6" arrows should cost no more than a hunting ready bolt. Don't want to get caught up in any laser guided anything. That too radical for archery.
BigBird-VA:
As soon as I can get the materials together. Would have been faster than usual, but no one in this industry has the savy or intelligence to get involved.
Herbinator:
I would not see a legal problem anywhere when used for varmints. It would be cheaper to use fletched steel 11/32" pins for varmints though which will shoot great out of this system as well as the 6" arrows and 20" bolts.
Sorry, no kit would be availiable. It's a design that's a ground up unit. The 6" arrows should cost no more than a hunting ready bolt. Don't want to get caught up in any laser guided anything. That too radical for archery.
BigBird-VA:
As soon as I can get the materials together. Would have been faster than usual, but no one in this industry has the savy or intelligence to get involved.
Herbinator:
I would not see a legal problem anywhere when used for varmints. It would be cheaper to use fletched steel 11/32" pins for varmints though which will shoot great out of this system as well as the 6" arrows and 20" bolts.
My mind is made up. Do not confuse me with the facts.
I think it's a neat idea and many here seem to agree. However, if you are expecting this product to replace regular crossbows, I just don't see it happening in your/my lifetime. It'll take one heck of a marketing effort to get this off the ground and running. It's already an uphill battle to use crossbows during regular bow season and this type of product doesn't make it any easier...to the contrary it'll make the "anti -crossgun" crowd chear with delight!(it's afterall not an arrow, but a dart!) In any other deer season(muzzleloader, shotgun, or rifle) this concept is inferior and won't be used. So where do you go from here?
Unless you come straight out and say it'll shoot a deer at 70+ yards, no one will pay attention. Accuracy has to translate into longer shooting distances or else what is it for?
Unless you come straight out and say it'll shoot a deer at 70+ yards, no one will pay attention. Accuracy has to translate into longer shooting distances or else what is it for?
Pete
The great outdoors is where I want to be.
The great outdoors is where I want to be.
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designer 2
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Woodsman:
First of all, it is a regular crossbow. The ONLY difference, is that the barrel or main frame has a top section. This translates into much greater safety over current models where as a defective bolt on these current models can come apart during the shot and hurt the archer. And, as I have said a few times before, it still shoots 20" bolts. In this case, It's the same thing with added safety. I have to ask. Who in their right mind, would want to prevent a safer system?
As far as an up-hill battle legalizing crossbows, I feel you are wrong. They are more popular and legal in more states than ever before. Simple reasons are that there are too many deer that the bow hunters are not keeping in check, and, the states get more revenue through license sales. Like it or not, It's always going to be the almighty buck. Sorry, I have to defend the fact that the 6" arrow is an arrow. A dart is what is thrown by hand. The 6" arrow is a much more effective way of getting the cutting blades to the right spot on the animal.
I hope I did not ruffle any feathers. If I did, I'm sorry.
First of all, it is a regular crossbow. The ONLY difference, is that the barrel or main frame has a top section. This translates into much greater safety over current models where as a defective bolt on these current models can come apart during the shot and hurt the archer. And, as I have said a few times before, it still shoots 20" bolts. In this case, It's the same thing with added safety. I have to ask. Who in their right mind, would want to prevent a safer system?
As far as an up-hill battle legalizing crossbows, I feel you are wrong. They are more popular and legal in more states than ever before. Simple reasons are that there are too many deer that the bow hunters are not keeping in check, and, the states get more revenue through license sales. Like it or not, It's always going to be the almighty buck. Sorry, I have to defend the fact that the 6" arrow is an arrow. A dart is what is thrown by hand. The 6" arrow is a much more effective way of getting the cutting blades to the right spot on the animal.
I hope I did not ruffle any feathers. If I did, I'm sorry.
My mind is made up. Do not confuse me with the facts.
...not ruffled at all. "Perception" is what you must overcome. I say dart you say arrow. You say safer, I don't see it. I can take my arrow off the track anytime a lot safer than you can. ( Unloaded is safest.)
Yes it's in a closed track. That is safer, but handling your dart puts the blades far closer to my hands which isn't safer.
Yes it's in a closed track. That is safer, but handling your dart puts the blades far closer to my hands which isn't safer.
Pete
The great outdoors is where I want to be.
The great outdoors is where I want to be.
Your idea is quite interesting, and you should be commended for following through with your vision. Whether it fails to be a commercial success or not, you have already succeeded in producing at least one functional prototype.
It seems the more your try to push your product the more resistance you will get. You have to accept that there will be resistance, but don't try to change everybodys mind.
Is it better than what we have available to use right now? I don't know. You seem to think it is. Do we need better than what we have now? When you can already put arrows into the same hole how do you improve upon that?
As mentioned earlier a design like this can only add fuel to the anti-crossbow fire. That is a fact. I don't see the 6" dart as an arrow. I'm sorry but I don't. Right now I shoot an arrow.
It seems the more your try to push your product the more resistance you will get. You have to accept that there will be resistance, but don't try to change everybodys mind.
Is it better than what we have available to use right now? I don't know. You seem to think it is. Do we need better than what we have now? When you can already put arrows into the same hole how do you improve upon that?
As mentioned earlier a design like this can only add fuel to the anti-crossbow fire. That is a fact. I don't see the 6" dart as an arrow. I'm sorry but I don't. Right now I shoot an arrow.
You can take the man out of the woods but you can't take the woods out of the man.
"Celebrate your harvest with a Bloodtrail Ale(tm)!!"
"It CAN Be Done!"
"Celebrate your harvest with a Bloodtrail Ale(tm)!!"
"It CAN Be Done!"
Chris
It's hard to say how much resistance there will be. Price and availability of the product will be key factors.
Some would buy it for the novelty...I have to admit it does tickle my curiosity. If the price was OK and it shot the super short bolts and standard bolts as well as claimed, I'd likely get one.
I have two Excaliburs, and a Mathews vertical, as well as firearms. Heck, I don't NEED any of them.
It's hard to say how much resistance there will be. Price and availability of the product will be key factors.
Some would buy it for the novelty...I have to admit it does tickle my curiosity. If the price was OK and it shot the super short bolts and standard bolts as well as claimed, I'd likely get one.
I have two Excaliburs, and a Mathews vertical, as well as firearms. Heck, I don't NEED any of them.
"Gun Control Laws"--trying to nag criminals into submission.
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designer 2
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- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:56 pm
Woodsman:
The safe handling of the 6" arrow was covered earlier in this thread. When in the field, You will not even touch the arrow itself. Unloading is easier too. You would have to see it in person to totally understand how that part works.
Chris4570:
I have very many working prototypes. A few look even better and work just as well.
I do realize that this product, if it became popular, will not be for everyone. The compound bow is a prime example of that thought.
I disagree with you about putting arrows in the same hole. ie, broadhead tipped 20" bolts at 30 yards in the same hole every time. I am very very sorry, but I'd like to see that. Thanks for the input.
The safe handling of the 6" arrow was covered earlier in this thread. When in the field, You will not even touch the arrow itself. Unloading is easier too. You would have to see it in person to totally understand how that part works.
Chris4570:
I have very many working prototypes. A few look even better and work just as well.
I do realize that this product, if it became popular, will not be for everyone. The compound bow is a prime example of that thought.
I disagree with you about putting arrows in the same hole. ie, broadhead tipped 20" bolts at 30 yards in the same hole every time. I am very very sorry, but I'd like to see that. Thanks for the input.
My mind is made up. Do not confuse me with the facts.
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Tennessee Tom
- Posts: 88
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- Location: West Tn
I presonaly think any improvement in terminal performace is ok , the bottom line is humane kills on game , I just don't know how the traditional archers will fell about this concept , if it becomes legal for hunting in my state----where can I get onedesigner 2 wrote:wabi:
Thanks for the responce.
Wether people on this forum are for or against this design, or, understand it or not, I'd like to take the time to tell everyone how impressed I am of the very intelligent questions all of you have asked. I wish that all of the people in this sport were like the people here.