Quality Issues Waiting to Happen...

[amythntr]

All the bows leave Excalibur strung .
All strings stretch . People who have been in the game long enough got to remember the Dacron stretch . It seemed to be never ending .
I should have added all bows leave strung short of brace height to anticipate some stretching .

I thought this was the case. Thanks for clearing that up DoeMaster. I think Marketing dude even mentioned that during shipping the strings may stretch depending on weather, (heat etc).

Ultimately, its up to the consumer to read and know all the maintenance and care of the products that we use, we can point to excal all we like for the low brace height problems, but its the user who isn't doing their homework!!

I still think a stringing aid should be included in the kit so the consumer can maintain their bow properly. Clearly its a very important tool.

.....hmmm!

"Ultimately up to the consumer to read and know all of the maintenance and care of the product they use!"

I let that sentence filter through my grey matter this morning over a nice cup of joe....I kept wavering back and forth in how I felt about this.

What I can say is, if I were the manufacturer I would want to do everything in my power to provide the necessary training, etc. to avoid "any" potential problems and lawsuits. We live in a very litigious society with people suing over any "wrong" that they feel happened to them.

With that said, I think Excalibur has done a phenomenal job in keeping customers happy with their customer service and lifetime warranty. Its much cheaper showing a customer that you feel their pain and make the customer "whole" in an expeditious manner .....It provides for free word of mouth advertising and is much cheaper than defending lawsuits.

Now if they could only figure out how to correct the brace height issue; whether its providing a stringer with the CB purchase or some other way, that would be great.

In the mean time Excalibur, in my opinion, has a working formula that I know we all hope never changes.


Anthony

[strum]

we have about beat this horse in the ground for a long while now and have given suggestion after suggestion .. so it looks like its not changing.
really it doesn't matter much to us uns on the forum.. we know
but we want to help others who are just getting into the xbow world.
I have to agree with Neil though. Its up to the consumer.
the problem is so many wannabe hunters will grab one of these off the shelve.
load up on the brightest packed B heads and fancy camo..and think they are ready to sling and arrow at a deer..NOT!!!

[Onetimeonly x-->]

All the bows leave Excalibur strung .
All strings stretch ...

I don't know if excalibur management ever reads these forums but so I have a suggestion that might help.
Brace height is far too important to leave to the instruction manual.
So to bring it to everyone's attention without a big fuss or cost, each string could have a fold over warning tag, like those sold with electric cords, that states the importance of this and how to achieve it. This would easily and cheaply protect both excalibur and their customers.

Excellent idea !!

Excellent idea and SHOULD be implemented.

[colouredchameleon]

I contend that this is an Excalibur issue. Created by Excalibur.

Also I first and for most really do not wish to ever have to deal with customer service or a warranty issue.
Dawn may be a very pleasant person but I have no wish for us to become known to each other on first name basis ever.
If we do then It only means one thing and that is that my Excalibur Crossbow has failed me in some way. Which for the average Joe this usually means at a critical time either just before their hunting or even worse during their hunt.
The fact that Excalibur will step up and make me whole is although nice to know is no excuse to justify or make up for the inconvenience and yes time and expense required or more so a destroyed hunting season.

When one reads the definition given in the accessories section for the Matrix String it alone conflicts with the notation about the need to be always be conscious of the need to regularly adjust the brace height. It clearly states that one of the two main attributes / advantages of the Matrix String is its reduced susceptibility to creep. Clearly this is an over statement based on how they appear to change in a very short time from packaging to delivery furthermore compounding the problem by the added indifference of some retailers to the importance of brace height on the Matrix crossbows as others have stated and I personally experience at three different bow shops in the last 2 weeks. All of which where still selling Excalibur crossbows but had no string aids in stock at the time but where still prepared to sell a crossbow to a unexpected consumer.

Matrix String

Excalibur Introduces a high-performance crossbow string and center serving on its Matrix series crossbows.


Constructed of BCY Dynaflight 97 material Excalibur’s Matrix Crossbow String produces two distinct advantages. First, it increases speed, which is a key attribute of Matrix Series crossbows. The Matrix 380 Xtra, for example, shoots 380 fps! The second advantage is reduced creep which allows you more time shooting, less time tuning.

The Excalibur Matrix string also features a new proprietary center serving which will give you increased string life.

For Matrix Series crossbows only

[one shot scott]

I made ya think, eh Anthony

Isn't it up to the user of the product(inset question mark here. that key is broken on my desktop|) Excalibur did their job, installing the string at the proper brace height. They also did the job of including that info in the manual that accompanies the bow. Its on dvds, its on the interwebs. the info is there. Its unreasonable to expect that Excalibur will sit down and train every employee at every store that sells their product. Imagine the time required if every manufacturer insisted on that. I read my manual front to back. Twice when I first started out. Its either the folks who think they know it all and don't bother, or the ones who don't like to read and rush in headfirst that run into problems. IMHO.


ima gonna duck and hide now

[amythntr]

I made ya think, eh Anthony

Isn't it up to the user of the product(inset question mark here. that key is broken on my desktop|) Excalibur did their job, installing the string at the proper brace height. They also did the job of including that info in the manual that accompanies the bow. Its on dvds, its on the interwebs. the info is there. Its unreasonable to expect that Excalibur will sit down and train every employee at every store that sells their product. Imagine the time required if every manufacturer insisted on that. I read my manual front to back. Twice when I first started out. Its either the folks who think they know it all and don't bother, or the ones who don't like to read and rush in headfirst that run into problems. IMHO.


ima gonna duck and hide now

I'm now in the same fox hole with you OSS...looks like the "arras" are getting close....imma gonna duck with you!


Anthony

[quickbiscuit]

"Isn't it up to the user of the product(inset question mark here. that key is broken on my desktop|) Excalibur did their job, installing the string at the proper brace height. They also did the job of including that info in the manual that accompanies the bow. Its on dvds, its on the interwebs. the info is there. Its unreasonable to expect that Excalibur will sit down and train every employee at every store that sells their product. Imagine the time required if every manufacturer insisted on that. I read my manual front to back. Twice when I first started out. Its either the folks who think they know it all and don't bother, or the ones who don't like to read and rush in headfirst that run into problems. IMHO."

Would you expect to buy a new car and immediately have to adjust the valves before it could be safely driven? Or that the manufacturer would expect you to read some obscure posts on an internet message board in order for you to know this information? What if this valve adjustment required a special wrench, scarcely available in most parts? Wouldn't that further place the burden on the manufacturer to make sure things were right from the get-go?

It is counter-intuitive, to say the least, to buy a product and immediately have to perform service on it before it can be properly used. I don't expect new Excalibur buyers, especially those coming from a compound bow background, to instinctively know that their new prized crossbow needs a significant adjustment right out of the box.

My new 380 was overnighted to me and delivered on Friday (as described in my earlier thread). I only knew that there was a problem with the brace height because I had spent Thursday night reading message boards and the CORRECT manual (more on that later), trying to learn all I could about this bow. I knew to check for brace height and that my string was not supposed to be resting on the REDS because I did an inordinate amount of reading before I got my bow. Even then, the manual never mentioned that this would likely be a problem right out of the box. Your average buyer is not going to have any idea there is a problem with the string resting on the REDS with the information currently provided by Excalibur.

Now back to the manual - my new 380 was shipped with an OLD manual that never even mentioned the Matrix line of bows, and only mentioned "brace height" in two sentences on the next to last page of the 10 page manual, even then giving the brace height for the old Excalibur bows - not the proper values for the Matrix! Luckily, I had downloaded the correct manual and read through it online. It made slightly more mention of the brace height adjustment.

So how is a new buyer supposed to know that his new Matrix bow has a problem, when big-box dealers are ignorant, the manual included with their bow is outdated and written for a totally different crossbow altogether, makes no mention of a REDS system, gives the incorrect brace height for a Matrix, says nothing about a new string being stretched right of the box, and offers no explanation of why you will need this magical stringing aid because your new $1100 crossbow cannot be safely shot right out of the box?

Bottom line - it's not a buyers responsibility to have the premonition to know all these untold things. A tag on the string along with detailed instructions on how to adjust the string, and a stringing aid should be included with all Excalibur crossbows. Also, how about throwing in the correct manual to boot?

[amythntr]

"Isn't it up to the user of the product(inset question mark here. that key is broken on my desktop|) Excalibur did their job, installing the string at the proper brace height. They also did the job of including that info in the manual that accompanies the bow. Its on dvds, its on the interwebs. the info is there. Its unreasonable to expect that Excalibur will sit down and train every employee at every store that sells their product. Imagine the time required if every manufacturer insisted on that. I read my manual front to back. Twice when I first started out. Its either the folks who think they know it all and don't bother, or the ones who don't like to read and rush in headfirst that run into problems. IMHO."

Would you expect to buy a new car and immediately have to adjust the valves before it could be safely driven? Or that the manufacturer would expect you to read some obscure posts on an internet message board in order for you to know this information? What if this valve adjustment required a special wrench, scarcely available in most posts? Wouldn't that further place the burden on the manufacturer to make sure things were right from the get-go?

It is counter-intuitive, to say the least, to buy a product and immediately have to perform service on it before it can be properly used. I don't expect new Excalibur buyers, especially those coming from a compound bow background, to instinctively know that their new prized crossbow needs a significant adjustment right out of the box.

My new 380 was overnighted to me and delivered on Friday (as described in my earlier thread). I only knew that there was a problem with the brace height because I had spent Thursday night reading message boards and the CORRECT manual (more on that later), trying to learn all I could about this bow. I knew to check for brace height and that my string was not supposed to be resting on the REDS because I did an inordinate amount of reading before I got my bow. Even then, the manual never mentioned that this would likely be a problem right out of the box. Your average buyer is not going to have any idea there is a problem with the string resting on the REDS with the information currently provided by Excalibur.

Now back to the manual - my new 380 was shipped with an OLD manual that never even mentioned the Matrix line of bows, and only mentioned "brace height" in two sentences on the next to last page of the 10 page manual, even then giving the brace height for the old Excalibur bows - not the proper values for the Matrix! Luckily, I had download the correct manual and read through it online. It made slightly more mention of the brace height adjustment.

So how is a new buyer supposed to know that his new Matrix bow has a problem, when big-box dealers are ignorant, the manual included with their bow is outdated and written for a totally different crossbow altogether, makes no mention of a REDS system, gives the incorrect brace height for a Matrix, says nothing about a new string being stretched right of the box, and offers no explanation of why you will need this magical stringing aid because your new $1100 crossbow cannot be safely shot right out of the box?

Bottom line - it's not a buyers responsibility to have the premonition to know all these untold things. A tag on the string along with detailed instructions on how to adjust the string, and a stringing aid should be included with all Excalibur crossbows. Also, how about throwing in the correct manual to boot?

....now attza whata I be torkin 'bout!


Anthony

[one shot scott]

Edit deadhorse

[quickbiscuit]

One shot Scott: "heaven help us if it gets a flat. itll be fords fault"

It would be Ford's fault if new vehicles were sold with 5 lbs of pressure in the tires instead of 40 lbs and the buyer had no way of knowing that this was not the correct value, and that the valve stems required a special chuck that wasn't readily available. That's what we're dealing with here.

[quickbiscuit]

Maybe if this dead horse gets beaten enough, Ecalibur will address the problem. I'm new here so I'm just offering my perspective, but it appears this has been a problem for a while, and I don't want the company's reputation to suffer, like the rest of you.

[paulaboutform]

Maybe if this dead horse gets beaten enough, Ecalibur will address the problem. I'm new here so I'm just offering my perspective, but it appears this has been a problem for a while, and I don't want the company's reputation to suffer, like the rest of you.

Very articulate and well said indeed.

[one shot scott]

You seem to take my responses as a direct insult towards you quikbiskit. Actually I think u did do your homework.

[mr meat]

Why not take the cocking aid out of the package and replace with a stringing aid!Now the retailer will be more likely to try and sell you a cocking aid as how many people are going to hand cock the higher poundage bows!! Thats just my 2cents

[quickbiscuit]

You seem to take my responses as a direct insult towards you quikbiskit. Actually I think u did do your homework.

Not at all, and I apologize if I came off too defensive. We're on the same page here. I was just arguing that blame should not be placed on the consumer in this situation.