Hunting range with 300-310fps velocities?

[nchunterkw]

HI MIck
I posted yesterday something similar to what Boo said, but I see the post isn't here. That happens from time to time....anyway

Being in Oz, and not shooting twitchy whitetails, I think a slower bow would be just fine for you and offer a few advantages you may want to consider.

1) it will be much easier on strings and servings....also targets
2) It will easier to get very accurate flight from slightly slower arrows - and fixed blade heads (which I would recommend - in particular the RamCat) will fly better on slightly slower arrows.

The very high speed bows are awesome, but everything gets a bit more touchy as you go up in speed.

[nchunterkw]

If the " things you want to shoot " at 50 yards are large animals which you have respect for ?

IMO, Err on the side of trajectory and performance and go with at least a Matrix or Micro 355..... better yet would be the 380.

Gene
( look below and see what I'm using...yes, my Micro falls into your 310 fps catagory at the range you mentioned also, and I personally feel it's effective range for me, up to and possibly including elk is right at 30 yards. )

Gene,
is your 30 yard limit on elk with your Micro due to energy or animal reaction time? I'd feel comfortable out to 50yds on an elk with a 450gr arrow from my Micro....based on my bison experience. But there are not too many elk to chase aroud NC so you would know better than me...

[Hi5]

Gene will speak for himself, of course.

For my $.02, the most important factor is penetration. I suppose that could be another way of measuring energy, but even a low energy projectile that has penetration and enough cut will do a better job than an arrow that simply has higher energy. I've taken 6 elk over the years with a bow. In every case I had complete pass through with my arrow. If you are using a cross bow, there is even less concern about an arrow passing through both sides of a chest shot. Energy is not an issue with a hunting crossbow.

An elk has somewhat slower reflexes than a whitetail (not that much, though) and a significantly larger kill zone. So, that could extend the range on an elk. How much? That depends on the shooter's skill and how alert is the animal.

[L. E. Carroll]

Your right.... Elk are bigger with a larger Vital area than several other game animals.
Keeping in mind those rib and shoulder bones and muscle groups are larger as a result of this increased size.

The penetration problem I face is I do my own calling.... The elk approach Alert and looking for anther elk in my direction. Under these circumstances I very seldom get that perfect Broadside or slghtly quartering away shot.

I would love to have another guy calling for me to get in that perfect position. I prefer my 355 matrix as my minimum ( but really looking forward to using my new 380 ) and the performance it gives me with the 447 grain set up I use when tripping the trigger it in an attempt to get it where it needs to go with sometimes a not so perfect shot angle on a Bull.

If I had the luxury of setting up in regards to the bull responding to another caller, be it a friend or paid guide. I'm sure complete penetration is obtainable with less speed and an an arrow such as the 439 grain set up I use with my Micro (at 299 fps. ) at greater than 30 yards. However, even with that set up, I personally would limit my shot to a max. of 45 yards and then only if everything was perfect.

I find my Micro "shines" while hunting mule deer, and carrying it sometimes long distances thru sage brush and rocky canyons while on a sling on my back..... Mule Deer, having less body mass and not responding to a call during the rut, more often allow me that perfect broadside shot. But then again, due to almost constant wind and the effect it gives, I have a self imposed max. shot range of 35-45 yards depending on how much its blowing and from what angle in relation to my deer.

It was asked if I think a Bull Elk while on elert as he approaches a call, has a faster reaction time than a buffalo ? ( I'm guessing, which is likely behind some type of fence, even though it may be a huge fenced in area, while standing in a group of not too excited other Buffalo) Yep, I think that even though a bull may not be quite as quick as a Whitetail, (which I have never hunted) . I do know he responds nearly as fast as any alert Mulie Buck I have ever spooked and surely faster than any buffalo I can emagine hunting in todays enviroment.

Here's where I screwed up in my origional post.... I did not realize the poster was from Oz.... Being so far away from Customer Service, I would definately suggest a Matrix 330 or 355 for their proven reliability.

Gene

[Hester0305]

The speed you're talking about isn't a problem if you practice a lot and know you're distance and the animal you seek. I've been hunting for about 35 years and put a lot of time in shooting and hunting. I love to have have my animals around the 20 yard mark if possible. Whitetails, as previously mentioned are nervous animals and can be get out of the way of an arrow at 50 yards if they're spooked or nervous when they come into range. I've killed them that far out and even farther with archery equipment but this isn't my preferred distance. My animals that I've killed were calm and feeding and I knew my distance and my bow or crossbow's trajectory at that distance. I use an HHA Optimizer where I can dial in to the yard which makes it easier to make the shot for me. I always aim in the heart area also so if a whitetail tries to duck an arrow just as it gets there I always still get lungs and not a wounded animal. I'd try to keep my distances a lot shorter than 50 yards and you're success rate will definitely be a lot better. You must be extremely confident in your ability to make a good clean kill. Hope this helps

[8ptbuk]

Hi guys just wondering if I bought an xbow set up for actual velocities of 310fps, what is the maximum useful range? I am trying to talk myself into getting something like a matrix 330 rather than a matrix 380. But I would like to shoot some things out to 50 yards or so. Unrealistic with the lighter bow and standard scope setup?

M330 will kill them just as dead as a M380 IF there still standing there when the arrow arrives . These Recurve Crossbows are LOUD . And in my experience , The deer react much quicker to the sound of a crossbow than a vertical because the xbows are much louder . If you plan on hunting in open spaces ALOT I would suggest going with the faster Xbow . Just my experiences .

[Czy_Horse]

And now for some math
Sound (travelling at approx. 1126 fps) of a bow releasing the arrow, gets to the twitchy 50 yard target in approx. 0.133 sec. An arrow traveling at 310 fps has only traveled about 13.8 yards in that 0.133 sec. and arrives at the twitchy target in 0.484 seconds. That gives a twitchy target about 0.35 seconds to respond.

The Bulldog @ 400 fps, target @ 50 yds., the arrow has only traveled 17.8 yds. before the sound gets to the twitchy target, twitchy target has 0.25 sec to respond.

Czy_Horse
PS
Not taken into account- friction as arrow travels to target & the sound of the arrow flying to the target. The arrow will actually take longer to get to target as it slows down during flight due to air friction and the twitchy target will therefore have slightly longer time to respond.

[nchunterkw]

Gene will speak for himself, of course.

For my $.02, the most important factor is penetration. I suppose that could be another way of measuring energy, but even a low energy projectile that has penetration and enough cut will do a better job than an arrow that simply has higher energy. I've taken 6 elk over the years with a bow. In every case I had complete pass through with my arrow. If you are using a cross bow, there is even less concern about an arrow passing through both sides of a chest shot. Energy is not an issue with a hunting crossbow.

An elk has somewhat slower reflexes than a whitetail (not that much, though) and a significantly larger kill zone. So, that could extend the range on an elk. How much? That depends on the shooter's skill and how alert is the animal.

I know what you are saying and totally agree about penetration. Was just using "energy" to generically talk about terminal performance. A lot goes into making an arrow that penetrates well, including wt., FOC, BH type, BH work angle, and shaft flex to name a few. Definately not just meaning "kinetic energy" as to me that is an oft used, mis-understood term when talking about hunting arrows.

[Boo]

Gene will speak for himself, of course.

For my $.02, the most important factor is penetration. I suppose that could be another way of measuring energy, but even a low energy projectile that has penetration and enough cut will do a better job than an arrow that simply has higher energy. I've taken 6 elk over the years with a bow. In every case I had complete pass through with my arrow. If you are using a cross bow, there is even less concern about an arrow passing through both sides of a chest shot. Energy is not an issue with a hunting crossbow.

An elk has somewhat slower reflexes than a whitetail (not that much, though) and a significantly larger kill zone. So, that could extend the range on an elk. How much? That depends on the shooter's skill and how alert is the animal.

I know what you are saying and totally agree about penetration. Was just using "energy" to generically talk about terminal performance. A lot goes into making an arrow that penetrates well, including wt., FOC, BH type, BH work angle, and shaft flex to name a few. Definately not just meaning "kinetic energy" as to me that is an oft used, mis-understood term when talking about hunting arrows.

I think you mean "misused". While someone may be correct in saying an arrow at a certain speed possesses a certain amount of KE or E and understand the 2 terms, they misuse or misapply it.
I am of the opinion that sectional density should be investigated by way of models and applied to archery.
Just a random thought.
These pictures may help figuring out what I am rambing about.
http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-b ... s-p-1/3597
don

[nchunterkw]

I think some of the phenomenon you are talking about has to do with the fact that there is a lot of energy (wind) being exerted on both the projectile and the target simultaneously.

But yes, maybe "mis-applied" is a better term to use for what I mean about KE. More KE does not mean (necessarily) more penetration. IMO it is mostly used as a marketing term because it is a technical term that varies the most for a change in velocity. (KE varies by the square of the velocity) So a bow manufacturer can make a change that gives a small speed increase but make it sound more impressive by marketing a bigger KE increase.