Moderator: Excalibur Marketing Dude
100% accurate.tomcat wrote:I'm all for making them more Compact & Faster( as I'm sure everyone here wants as well)...The point is that the QA /Testing of these new designs needs to be emphasized on the new models to return the reputation for dependability.
Nobody is questioning the awesome warranty or customer service that Excal stands behind the product til the end...
As one poster stated..he doesn't have the faith to take his 405 on big dollar trips..that is exactly what needs restored. Customer faith in DEPENDABILITY AFIELD.
Compact and fast are easily obtained with quieter compound models and inherently they will ALWAYS be better when those attributes are on the table..
The recurve model's simplicity and ability to change string afield is what sets it apart from the crowd.
Can it be made more compact and fast to compete better with compounds? Yes,(as it has) but IMHO the line is a very delicate one that relies heavily upon testing/QA when your core product is based upon dependability...
Excal has already attracted a lot of prospective compound buyers by delivering a faster and more compact line of bows(hence sales growth)...Now they just need enhance QA/Testing to restore the dependability the brand is known for and I think that what makes the new lineup so important, is that they are emphasizing this with the model's marketing..
I don't understand why the general thinking is that the 405 was not adequately tested. Do you really think Excalibur put that bow out there....the fastest bow....the pushing the envelop bow.....first recurve over 400fps bow.....without first testing the crap out of it? If anything, this would be the design most tested as it is the worst case limb scenario.tomcat wrote:I'm all for making them more Compact & Faster( as I'm sure everyone here wants as well)...The point is that the QA /Testing of these new designs needs to be emphasized on the new models to return the reputation for dependability...
I think this is a great post. It is about as opposite in thinking as it can be from most guys who have been archery hunting for a long long time...but is the reality of a HUGE percentage of the market Excal is going after.scope422 wrote:I'm very impressed! Excalibur is spot on with what they are doing. Speed and size does matter. Let me give you the perspective from a newcomer to the scene. Many of us are just entering the market because it's only become legal in our states over the last few years. When I finally decided to try crossbow hunting I spent many hours reading and researching what was out there. Handled and shot the ones that interested me. Wasn't sure if it would be for me so I went cheap on my first crossbow. Knew I wanted an Excalibur but didn't want to drop a lot of $ on one yet. The older models were within my price range but 36" wide was a turnoff. The lower speeds of the cheaper matrix models also didn't thrill me either. Bought one with training wheels to start. Compact, 345fps, $300, and somewhat of a warranty. Hunted with it and took a great buck. I was hooked! Mid season I dropped the cash and got me a real crossbow, a Matrix 355. Loved it so much I spent most of gun season hunting with it and took 2 more deer.
Us newbie's compare the numbers. That's what we look at when deciding what we want. Speed is not so much about the power as it is the trajectory. It's pretty much a no brainer when looking at 2 crossbows that cost the same and one shoots 300fps and the other 350fps. Excalibur is running right up there with the wheeled boys and with a lifetime warranty. I am Excalibur for life!
And one last comment....a saying I learned from almost 30 years in the business world, "A satisfied customer will tell 2 people about it. An unsatisfied customer will tell 10 people about it". Anyone looking to get rid of your 405's cheap let me know
Drew, I'm sorry but I absolutely disagree! You are correct in your speed observationsDrew wrote:Ah yes, marketing at it's finest.
I'd rather see less variants or at least differentiate more than just a few fps. Do we really need 305fps, 310fps, and 315fps model crossbows?? Maybe next year we will have 300-405fps bows increasing by 5fps graduations lol.
I only have my opinion so take it with a grain of salt...but here is what I would like to see.
An actual cheek pc that puts your sight line down the pipe. The current cheek pcs are basically useless.
Bombproof limbs for all models.
Magnum power strokes for better efficiency in throwing heavy arrows. Not everyone wants to shoot 350gr splinters. I'd like to see a bow that can throw a 500gr arrow at 380-400fps and you do not get that with a 10" power stroke.
I explained it to someone recently like this...
M355 is like a .270
M380 is like a 7mm Rem Mag
M405 is like a .338 Lapua
Sometimes you really want/need that Lapua. And if you need that level of power you definitely do not want the limbs blowing up.
So I'll continue saving for a new M380 and get a single stage TT for it. I'll build up another cheek pc to be functional and I'll replace the scope.
Well I had that bow $1,400 and Change to shop about every 150 shots to replace the string , had to replace trigger and 2 different times had to get the cams adjusted $$$. I always looked at the Excal but never liked the physical size. Then this spring while at the bow shop to get something else done . I got to hold and shoot the micro Wow !! However, before I bought one I read up and asked a ton of questions. I relied the most on the guy that owned my local Shop. I said I hear that limbs are failing . He looked at me and said well I don't really know about that I have sold over 20 since they came out and I have had only one returned for service and that was a trigger issue and anyway, the company stands behind their product better then anyone in the industry. and that ladies and gentleman sealed the deal for this old stick flinger.
I would like to know how you can actually make that above statement, well I guess I do know, because you have a computer and an internet connection and you know how to type.nenokid wrote:I will be impressed only when I know that Excalibur will again be as reliable as in the past .... otherwise requires only containers to hold the broken limb.
Buszone your statement is, in my opinion, dead on.Buszone wrote:Wow sometimes this forum is just amazing! I joined the Excalibur family this past spring having moved from the #1 compound Xbow family. Why you ask?
I have several hundred shots thru my Micro including its wacking of 4 bucks in 2 different states. I traveled to WVa from the cheese state and the only concern I had was would by best buddy let me sleep in the tent. Things break that's just how it is , and yes it sucks when it happens. Now I'm just waiting for a terrific deal another Micro 335 for my wife she wants a Black one
L. E. Carroll wrote:
Gene
) was truly a, "I have to have it purchase!"...I was fortunate enough to win another Nightmare at Boofest...I really didn't feel that bad because I know I spent that much while I was there during the raffles, donations, etc....The IBEX...I just lost my head and really should not have bought it...I loved the simplicity and just wanted a pre-Matrix bow!...
Tom, I agree wholeheartedly. Both you and I are "old-timers" when it comes to Excalibur crossbows. You starting with your Relayer, me with a Wolverine. However I don't think that Excalibur has totally abandoned/forgotten people who like/need/want a slower speed bow. After all, this year they introduced the Micro 315. Perhaps you're looking for even a more "gentler" shooting bow. If so, as long as Excalibur continues to make Vixen-type bows, I believe that the niche will continue to be filled.It is great that a company expands it's products to compete as well as gain a greater customer base. But, to forget about the customers they already have is not good.
Tom
From the "LIST of MODELS" from the Home Page ......ComfyBear wrote:Tom, I agree wholeheartedly. Both you and I are "old-timers" when it comes to Excalibur crossbows. You starting with your Relayer, me with a Wolverine. However I don't think that Excalibur has totally abandoned/forgotten people who like/need/want a slower speed bow. After all, this year they introduced the Micro 315. Perhaps you're looking for even a more "gentler" shooting bow. If so, as long as Excalibur continues to make Vixen-type bows, I believe that the niche will continue to be filled.It is great that a company expands it's products to compete as well as gain a greater customer base. But, to forget about the customers they already have is not good.
Tom
Well said Keith!nchunterkw wrote:I don't understand why the general thinking is that the 405 was not adequately tested. Do you really think Excalibur put that bow out there....the fastest bow....the pushing the envelop bow.....first recurve over 400fps bow.....without first testing the crap out of it? If anything, this would be the design most tested as it is the worst case limb scenario.tomcat wrote:I'm all for making them more Compact & Faster( as I'm sure everyone here wants as well)...The point is that the QA /Testing of these new designs needs to be emphasized on the new models to return the reputation for dependability...
There are a ton of 405s out there with no problems. Even if the limb failure rate is 5% (which it is not according to Excal) 95% of the bows are fine. Now they find a way to stay at 400fps while reducing limb stress due to a new riser design and "Powerload" limbs. Of course you bring that to market as an improvement....and it has no bearing on the 405.
What makes sense...the only thing that makes sense......is a process problem with the fabrication of the limbs. Because IF it were a design issue:
a) the failure rate would be very high (it wouldn't be IF the limbs fail, but when)
b) any limb process issues would have really made the situation worse.
As an engineer who has done production for years, I can tell you that any time the pressure to ship goes up (as in this case with suddenly unprecedented high sales volumes) issues pop up. Issues you never knew were there. Just like higher speed points out problems in an arrow that flies fine at a lower speed.....speed in manufacture points out ....and let's you improve.....your process.
So they get the limb process back up to snuff, toss any limbs that are in stock but suspect, make new ones and replace any that break under warranty. Yes, it would be nice if they could track limb fab lot to bow SN but the bows do not have SNs, and I see no lot info on the limbs. So that ain't gonna happen....but adding that type of tracking info would be a suggestion from me to Excal.
Tom, you need to get out there and actually handle and shoot a a 330, 310 or Grizzly.Tom wrote:From the "LIST of MODELS" from the Home Page ......ComfyBear wrote:Tom, I agree wholeheartedly. Both you and I are "old-timers" when it comes to Excalibur crossbows. You starting with your Relayer, me with a Wolverine. However I don't think that Excalibur has totally abandoned/forgotten people who like/need/want a slower speed bow. After all, this year they introduced the Micro 315. Perhaps you're looking for even a more "gentler" shooting bow. If so, as long as Excalibur continues to make Vixen-type bows, I believe that the niche will continue to be filled.It is great that a company expands it's products to compete as well as gain a greater customer base. But, to forget about the customers they already have is not good.
Tom
Micro 315 ......... 260lb draw weight
Matrix 310 ........ 200lb draw weight
Matrix Cub ........ 190lb draw weight
Matrix Sapphire .. 200lb draw weight
These are the lowest poundage of bows they show on their product list. In the "Previous Crossbow Models" they list the Phoenix at 175lb draw weight but do not have the Vixen listed any more. Actually you can not even bring up the Vixen as a model.
For many on here, 190 - 200 pound draw weight is just too much for an every day shooter. I wished I had a dollar for every time someone sold a heavier pound bow or got another lighter bow just because they found the heavier bows to be not as fun to shoot, just too much work.
Do not get me wrong, I do believe that there is a place in todays world for the newer bows, but it is Right Beside the older, Lighter Poundage Bows.
Tom
