The PERFECT broadhead!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wabi · Post by **wabi** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:17 am

We’re at the time of year when everybody is in a rush to get out there and hunt, and sometimes they just haven’t had time to find out how their bow will shoot with broadheads. Perhaps a new bow, perhaps a lack of funds to buy extra broadheads, perhaps just putting it off until tomorrow…… but here we are, season opens next week and we have no idea what broadhead to use. No problem, I’ll just check the forum and find out which one will shoot from my new crossbow. A quick post, and the answers pour in! OK, “ole Charlie” says brand “A” shoots perfectly using brand “A” arrows, but then we read farther and find that “ole Jim” tried them and found that brand “B” shot better from brand “A” arrows…..?????? Now I’m confused, if these two guys are shooting the same arrow from the same model bow, why are the results different?
From my experience I’ve found that all broadheads, arrows, and bows are not equal. A slight difference in any of the components can upset the whole equation. I was reading posts a couple of years ago that kept promising brand ”A” broadheads would group right with field points and cut a hole through a deer you could stick your fist through. I ran out and bought a package and tried them. They did not group with my field points, but left me with a lighter wallet, and still wondering what to use to hunt with. I read further and decided to try the new broadheads that had just hit the market and everyone was bragging about. They were worse! I finally scraped together enough cash to buy brand “C” , and they shot fine! I could shoot a target using them and field points together in the arrows, and they made one ragged hole in the target.
But why were all the forum members getting good groups from brands “A” and “B”, and I couldn’t get them to shoot? Were these guys buying stock in the company and pushing the product, or was something different about my setup? Oh well, I found one that shoots, so I’ll go hunting! I did, and I had success, so the problem of why the others wouldn’t shoot was put aside.
As next season approached I saw the same questions and answers appearing, and I remembered my experience. I could now add my opinion that brand “C” was by far the superior broadhead, and save the novice some time and money. But, from the results of the new questioner’s experiences he was getting fine performance from brand “A” ????????? Why am I different?????? I finally took time to do some testing, and evaluate the problem from a more detailed perspective. “ole Charlie” was using the same arrows, but he has aluminum instead of the brass inserts I was using! “ole Joe” was using the same shafts, but he had more helical on the fletching! Hmmmmmmm! I made up a few arrows with more helical and VIOLA!!!! Brand “A” was suddenly grouping well from my crossbow. But brand “B” that should be grouping well was still shooting a little off ???? I still haven’t solved that mystery, but I can tell you there’s no gurantee that just because I get good results with brand “A” broadheads on brand “A” arrows is no assurance you will.
So where does that leave you? Do you need to ignore all the advice, mortgage the house and go buy all the broadhead brands you can find and start testing on your own? I think you can safely take the advice of others to narrow down the selection, but don’t give up if your first selection doesn’t perform as advertised! Try changing a few of the possible variables, or try selection 2, but you will hit on a combination sooner or later - hopefully sooner!
Perhaps we need a poll of broadhead types to find the brand(S) that are top performers. If members will post to this topic, we could let it run a few days, then take the brands mentioned and do a poll. You could start with the most popular brand, then if it doesn’t do as expected try #2, or try small changes in your setup (change inserts, change fletching angle, etc.).
I know my personal experience has me using the following choices, in the order listed:
#1 - G-5 Montec
#2 - SlickTrick
#3 - Wasp Jackhammers (double banded!!!!)

Warning:
Whatever you pick, be sure to test thoroughly before you hunt with it!!!!!!!!!!
IMHO "if you don't have time to test - you don't have time to hunt!"
Be safe, be ethical, be sure you know where that arrow is going to hit before you shoot it at a live target!

mdcrossbow · Post by **mdcrossbow** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:29 am

Good Post wabi, I haven't tried your #1 pick.

And it will probably be a cold Day in .... befor I do

I'm confadent with my set up and it's proven it's self over and over to be the best I have used, Slick Trick and Lazzer ll' with 90 gr. insert.

This season so far 3 doe's 3 pass troughts. 2 were spine shots stright down and out.

wabi · Post by **wabi** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:19 am

Dave,
My point exactly! I tried SlickTricks, and they just wouldn't group with field points! I gave up and switched to Montecs. They grouped with field points and I and killed deer with them. Then I got to asking myself why the Slicks worked for everyone else, but not me

A change from 4 degree to 7 degree fletching put the Slicks right in the group with field points and Montecs!!!!!!!! The big reason I use Montecs is that I can re-sharpen them, I have plenty, and the replacement blades for the Slicks can be hard to find.
You have confidance in Slicks, and I'm not suggesting you change! But the novice might try them and have the same problems I had. I'm just pointing out that you should not expect to buy a pack, screw them on your arrows, and go hunting just because they work for me! Try the popular brands, test thoroughly, then go with one you like.
If we did a poll the novice could easily see what works for most members, and sart testing from there. I'm sur we would never get all the brands listed, but the top 5 or 10 would be a good starting point. All I have tested is Montec, SlickTrick, Wasp JacHammer, and Wasp Boss. I never did get the Boss to shoot well, but I didn't do a lot of testing and tinkering simply because I already had three good combinations to choose from. I'm sure they could be fine-tuned to shoot well, but why try when I don't need to?

GonHuntin · Post by **GonHuntin** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:28 am

Good post Wabi

I personally don't care if my broadheads shoot to the same point as field tips........I couldn't tell you the last time I shot a field tip out of my Exocet... I shoot broadheads when I'm hunting and I shoot broadheads when I'm getting ready for hunting.......I'm not a target shooter and that would make a big difference......

I'm still shooting the original WASP cam locks that Excalibur recommended when I bought my first Exocet years ago.....they have always worked well but they are harder to find.....so I'm going to try some Thunderhead 100s that I picked up on clearance at wallyworld.......

I think we get WAY too wrapped up in the "perfect broadhead".....if it's sharp and shoots at least a 3" group at 30 yards.......it will do the job if shot placement is good!!

LoneWolf · Post by **LoneWolf** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:20 pm

good stuff!...

chris4570 · Post by **chris4570** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:02 pm

I've found Wasp 130gr camlocks and Muzzy 3 blade 125gr heads to fly well. And like Gonhuntin said I don't care if my broadheads fly the same as field points, I don't hunt with field points!!!

GaryL · Post by **GaryL** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:36 pm

Super read wabi, I myself have super results with SlickTricks and Montec G5's with Lazer II 20" shafts. Mine hit the same spot with either..my flecthing is 4deg.

With my Phoenix and Exomax however I am using the same style broadheads but on the Max they are 125gr SlickTricks with brass inserts front 424gr., with the Phoenix they are 18" Lazer II's with brass inserts front and 100gr. slicktricks or Montec G5's....

mdcrossbow · Post by **mdcrossbow** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:23 pm

the whole deal in a nut shell is to know your equipment befor you hunt and have confadence. Good post wabi, now lets go kill something. The eurge finnaly hit.

tad · Post by **tad** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:27 pm

It was too easy for me! Slight helical with feathers and 100 grain Thunderheads dead center to 50 yards! I think fletching is the key!

Moreland · Post by **Moreland** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 12:20 pm

I've learned one thing... DON'T CHEAP OUT ON YOUR BROADHEADS!!! Instead of buying good quality ones I bought the Eastman Titanium 100gr broadheads. Same idea as the SlickTricks, or the NAP Crossfires, (small compact fixed-blades) but they do not group worth a s***! So now I don't know what to do with a week left before the season, should I shoot my NAP Shockwave mechanicals with double bands, or should I try to get some new broadheads, and only have a week to get them shooting good in my bow?

GaryM · Post by **GaryM** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:01 pm

I'm with Stout. I throw away those target points and only shoot broadheads for practice. Not old bent ones that have been shot through deer, but brand new ones. When I'm confident things are right, they get resharpened and that's it. The same bolt and broadhead I kill a deer with I've fired into foam at least a dozen times. Having that confidence in your bolts, broadheads, and bow will boost your confidence in other ways as well. There's no wondering or hesitation when it's time to shoot at game. And that's coming up this Saturday. Low will be 42F. Yes!

diesel · Post by **diesel** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:10 am

Wabi thaks for this post. I'm using Wasp Jackhammers also. They have shot very well for me. Two things, One when I've shot them at 40yards or more they really seem to whistle. Have you noticed this ? No I don't plan on shooting at anything that far away. But if I hear it, after the sound of the bow , I'm sure the Deer will hear it at 25 yards.
Next they say it only takes 30ft pounds of K. energy for the arrow to pass through a deer. But what size hole are they cutting ?
I'm using 385 gr. arrows and will be cutting 1 3/4" hole and if I hit two ribs, do you think there may be any problems ?
Sorry about the dumb questions. My biggest fear of hunting with a bow of any kind is wounding an animal and not finding it.
I've not had that problem with a 12 gauge yet.

peter p · Post by **peter p** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:21 am

It's also the field points.
Not all shoot the same. I was using 100 grain field points and had them dead on but the slick tricks were off.
Bj said to use the 11/32 field points and when I did the slick tricks and field points were both right on.

tomcat · Post by **tomcat** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:20 am

A lot of people spend time looking for the "magic bullet" in brands of broadheads, but what really affects accuracy is consistency in arrow assembly.
If you buy a mass produced crossbow arrow you are getting inconsistent groups period. Now some are better than others but they just can't do it as well as you can yourself.

If you pick a broadhead with less exposed planing surface...such as a mech, yes it will fly closer to a field point than an unvented fixed blade when it's attached to untrue arrows or out of an untuned rig.

But if you spend the time to ensure all your arrow spin dead true, and your bow is tuned(in this case cocked consistently true) I guarantee you will shoot groups with your fieldpoints.

I have found that the best BH's are the ones that are coincidentally the most popular.

Muzzy, NAP, Wasp, Barrie and other survivors have a reputation they have earned thu attention to quality control, tight machining tolerances etc.
All of these broadheads are an evolution of perfection over the years, and wouldn't be as reknowned for accuracy, flight, durability etc in a world filled with "high tech" marketing ploys.
Think about it, these heads have survived ALL the latest craze of Montecs, Soncs, Slick tricks, Rockets etc. They are solid performers and remain marketable because they are consistently manufactued, accurate, dependable and above all refined to near perfection.
Example;
Spitfire, one of the best flying heads ever, lethal and accurate as well as tough. It's only flaw was it's lack of a path being cut for the first 1/2 of the ferrule as it passed thru tissue/bone leading to marginal penetration with slower bows.
To improve on it's design NAP put a blade in the tip to cut a path for the ferrule, this retained the flight characteristics that spitfires are known for and at the same time made it so pass thru's were more likely even out of average bows.
I have shot speed rigs for years and have yet to find a brand of broadhead that wouldn't group with fieldpoints when the bow was tuned and arrows spun true.
I personally know that every broadhead has it's ups and downs, but the popular ones are popular for reasons, and the newest designs are only sometimes as good, sometimes they are just a "fashion" just like disco:)
The true test is the test of time..and if they are around 10 years from now or if we are still shooting Muzzy's. Thunderheads etc:)

GaryL · Post by **GaryL** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:42 am

True tomcat but I sure like my slicktricks and Montec g5's fer now....