Question: 20 yard vs 50 yard Opportunities

John Wade · Post by **John Wade** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:25 pm

I'm practicing my 25 - 50 yard shots and would like some input. When one is confident enough to take 50 yard shot so there is no question of ethics to do so, what are your opinions/experience as to the change of odds regarding the number of shootable deer opportunities?

John "Vegas" Wade

widowman · Post by **widowman** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:53 pm

there are alot of people that can shoot crossbows at 50 yards and beyond accurately. However, none of those people can predict what the animal will do during the arrows flight. Just one step could turn a double lung shot into a gut shot.

In my own experience, I have found that if deer have come within 50 yards they come within 20-30.

I think that you will find that you don't get that many additional shooting oppourtunities just by increasing your effective shooting distance.

Regardless of my weapon choice, I like them as close as possible, but not so close where the shot angle is extreme.

kendo kid · Post by **kendo kid** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:22 pm

I agree with Windowman. I shot a 7 point buck last year at 3 yards and it was one of the most difficult shots I ever took. He never knew what hit him. Regarding the 50 yards issue: It is not the shooters ability to hit the mark nor is it the ability of the X bow and arrow to do their job; it is the predictability of the prey. They are known to stop and start on a whim. However, if the deer is preoccupied in sniffing some scent you put out or a lick branch; then you have better chance of making your shot at that distance. If you have grunted him to a halt or they have stopped on their own your chances are slimmer. Each situation, like each hunter, is different. Each of us has made shots, with gun or bow, we wished we had not made. Perhaps we were too quick or not quick enough to make our decision to shoot or not shoot. During gun season about 10 years ago, a nice 8 pointer was walking down a fire road that was left open during a plant of a tree farm. He was headed for the crossing of a wood road so I let him keep walking. When he got to the last bush before stepping into the road he turned right. I had not shot and watched him walk out of sight. I have had similar experiences bow hunting with deer following a drag rag trail I laid down. But you never know what they are going to do. They are predictably unpredictable

Woody Williams · Post by **Woody Williams** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:16 pm

kendo kid wrote: They are predictably unpredictable

That is the wisest 4 words ever in deer hunting....

wabi · Post by **wabi** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:44 pm

IMHO - 50 yards is definately unethical. 30 Is my limit with my Phoenix, and even at 30 it would have to "feel" perfect before I shot! With a faster bow you might extend it to 35, but that would be the limit I'd want to try.

John Wade · Post by **John Wade** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:46 pm

That's what I needed to know.
Thanks.

jw

crazyfarmer · Post by **crazyfarmer** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:44 pm

40yards would be my max shot, but 10-20 is my norm. I can shoot very well to 50, but I'm just not shooting a deer that far with any bow

Rich · Post by **Rich** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:35 pm

This is a 3 shot 50 yard group out of my Exocet, no question about my ability or the XBOWS capability, however, I still would not take a 50 yard shot at a deer. I'm with CF, 40 yards max with the following stipulations: open field, no wind, deer not alerted to my presence and no chance of coming closer.

Rich

widowman · Post by **widowman** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:48 pm

Has anyone ever noticed that 50 yards is considered an unethical shot, yet 40 perfectly fine? There is not much difference in the two shots IMO. In fact most people would have trouble judging the distance at 40 or 50 yards. Shooting at 300 fps, the arrow is in the air .4 or .5 seconds, not much difference. Does that mean that 40 yards unethical?

In my opinion, ethics are subjective and personal to the individual. It is not fair to make distance the determining factor for what is or is not ethical. In fact, I do not feel it is right to tell another hunter what they consider ok, is unethical or wrong. It is up to each hunter to live and learn based on thier own experiences and form thier own opinions.

Sorry to rant and nothing personal, the ethics thing always gets to me.

Woody Williams · Post by **Woody Williams** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:03 pm

Has anyone ever noticed that 50 yards is considered an unethical shot, yet 40 perfectly fine? There is not much difference in the two shots IMO.

From 40 to 50 that arrow is dropping big time.

MUCH more room for error.

Not speaking for wabi, but I do believe he meant that would not be ethical for HIM.

It wouldnt for me either.

YMMV..

.

wabi · Post by **wabi** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:25 pm

Right Woody!
I know my Phoenix's accuracy is well up to a long shot, but the arrow velocity just leaves too much chance for a deer to move beyond 30 yards. I have watched enough deer to know you can't always judge a deer's reaction by how it appears. The "they are predictably unpredictable" statement says it about the best I ever heard it phrased. Even at 30 yards, if I think there's a chance it will come closer - I wait!

Beaver · Post by **Beaver** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:36 pm

Lets say you have a 380 grain arrow leaving your bow at 300 fps. If you have 5 inch plastic vanes and a good vented or mechanical broadhead, you time of flight to 50 yards would be .521732 seconds. The sound of your shot would arrive in .13636 seconds. That would give the deer .38537 seconds to react to your shot before your arrow arrived.

The drop of your arrow at 40 yards would be 34 inches. The drop at 50 yards would be 55 inches. However, drop doesn't really matter as you would have a 50 yard zero, that is if the deer were exactly 50 yards. If it were actually 49 or 51 yards, that drop factor could cause either a miss or a poor hit. .3 seconds is more than enough time to turn a double lung into a low gut shot.

The mid range trajectory, or actually the range at which the arch of the arrow is the highest would be on the order of 5 feet, actually a little less if I have my ballistic calculator working correctly. I am having trouble with the MRT eading feature

Any low limbs or obsdtructions would be disasterous.

If shooting along a power line clearing, or into an open field, 50 yards is POSSIBLE and I know it has done. However, it would be a low probability shot even for the best.

widowman · Post by **widowman** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:42 pm

Let me express that I am not trying to step on toes.

I just feel that only an individual can determine what is ethical for them.

If a shooter were to feel confident in longer shoots, that is thier right to do so. If the "unpredectable" deer does move and results in a bad shot that is part of the process of forming that hunters ethics. In the future he may not attempt the shot again. However, if he attained a level of proficency and a level of confidence to shoot at longer ranges, and is succesful he is no less ethical than someone that choose to restrict thier range to 15 yards. In fact, if he has the ability and the confidence, yet is unsuccessful, he can still be considered ethical.

I guess what I am saying is that if an individual hunter is comforatable with the choices they are making, then they are being ethical.

pphoenix · Post by **pphoenix** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:12 pm

have to agree with the rest of the crew, 20-30 yds should be the max. distance that you should consider shooting a deer from.

Rich · Post by **Rich** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:22 pm

Beaver,

Your figures don't match the stats on the Excal home page:

This is using a 400 grain arrow at 300FPS and sighted in at 20 yards:

50 yards Drop: -29.75 FPS: 271.75 KE: 65

I practice shooting 50 yards all the time for fun, not hunting and have never noticed a 5 foot arch. Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, if so, I apologize.

Rich