Broadhead tuning with my Phoenix

ruttinbuck · Post by **ruttinbuck** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:09 pm

Hey guys
I am going to use Muzzy 4 blade 100gr heads for my hunting tips.I had a few of them arrive with the bow when I bought it and the practice tip seems to fly very close to the field tips out to 30yds.
My question is how do tune to make sure I am getting all the accuracy I can out of the Bheads?I did just order 6 more of the muzzys so I can shoot a couple of the older ones and the practice head for tuning.I just want to get all i can out of the accuracy when hunting.thx RB

saxman · Post by **saxman** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:31 pm

bstout wrote:I match my hunting arrows to my bow, not the other way around.

I shoot 20" GT Laser II carbons, feathers and vanes, brass front inserts and aluminum front inserts. I shoot Zwickey Black Diamond broadheads and Wasp Series II Cam-Loc hunting heads.

I have four different hunting arrows I can choose from depending on the circumstances. Sometimes I must alter the F.O.C. on a given hunting arrow in order for it to fly the same as my other hunting arrows. This can be a challenge but has always been doable.

All of my hunting arrows have the exact point of impact out to twenty yards.

In other words, I never have to touch my scope adjustments when switching between hunting arrows to suit the weather conditions or the game I'm after.

I shoot field tips on occasion. I don't consider them to be any kind of reference point making them a non-issue.

I would completly agree with the above,While I only use 1 kind of broadhead currently,I would like to try some of those Zwickz's,the simplicity and being able to resharpen appeals to me.I dont use field points to shoot at all so I always know where my broadheads are shooting. as long as the head you choose is grouping well at all ranges,shoot them.I know of some here who have not been happy with Muzzy's in general particularly the 4 blade and others swear by them.VIVA LE DIFFERANCE

ruttinbuck · Post by **ruttinbuck** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:28 pm

Enlighten me if you can on what guys hated about the 4 blade muzzys.

Rich · Post by **Rich** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:40 pm

The Muzzy 100 grain 4 Blades fly great out of my Pheonix and Exocet, only thing was they didn't group exactly to my fieldtips so I just readjust my POI. As with the other low profile blades I tried, I sometimes had poor blood trails (all deer recovered).

Rich

Cossack · Post by **Cossack** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:52 pm

Slick Trick mags have worker great for me. Good accuracy and consistency (one arrow to the next) and fly pretty much like my field tips. Good terminal performance too. At 67 I get too confused with multiple details like which arrow to use. So I'm using just slicks; even for turkey, just backed with a grappler to reduce penetration.

Northern · Post by **Northern** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:15 pm

This is a post that I ran a long time ago. Hope it helps.
Darrin

I'm coming up on my second (6 now)crossbow season, 21 st (26 now) Bow season, and I've had my share of grief with broadhead flight. I've added a few more things this year, but the basics remain the same. If anyone has any other tips please carry on with them.

After having read the few posts about broadheads, and I thought I'd share a few of my secrets about shooting broadheads. Stuff that has worked for me, may save you some time and aggravation!

OK, we all know that a track type crossbow shoots a perfect arrow! You don't have to tune it, so I won't get into that. You do however have to cock it straight! Use a cocking aid! My group almost doubled at 60y without it! Yes I said 60y. If you can shoot a good group at 60, you'll be able to shoot aspirins at 20y!

You need at lest 10% FOC (Forward of Center) balance on your arrows. I found a 100g tip to be acceptable on 2213, min on a 2216 with vanes, good with feathers. Changing to feathers takes off 30g from the back of you arrow, moves FOC up. 125g is good on a 2219. If you use a 75g broadhead with vanes, .......good luck, never worked for me. Over the summer I've become a big believer in lots of FOC. Gold tip laser 2's with brass inserts fly like darts! I believe they are over 30% FOC. Excalibur puts carbon inserts in the back of there arrows for this very reason, FOC!

You need some control! Put some helical or angle on your fletch! Too much is a bad thing, your fetch has to sit in the track, if you have too much it will climb out as it travels down the track. But you need some! You can use more with feathers than vanes. The factory fletched arrows I received from my local dealer had very little angle, no helical. They were bearly acceptable with small and mechanical heads.
Wayne from Archery Plus uses 7 degrees of angle on a 4" fletch, he tells me it's optamal and I have to agree.

Make sure your broadhead spins like a top! If it's not straight, you have a rudder on the front of your arrow. No good! Get yourself a roller, you can check both your arrows and broadheads for striaghtness.

And that's about it! Following these steps I was able to shoot a variety of heads from a Vixen, Exocet and a E-mag. Even a traditional styled Magnus 4 blade flew like a dart!
So hope this helps, if anyone has any other tips, please add them on!

Darrin

Northern · Post by **Northern** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:22 pm

Last deer season my buddy was having problems with his normally tack driving Excal. Broadheads were all over the place! We determined that he had too much helical on his plastic fletch and in the cold weather the fletch was very stiff and was climbing out of the track on the shot. He switched to feathers and the cold weather problems went away!!

I haven’t tried the Blazer Vanes, hope to this summer. Does anyone have a comment on them?

My E-mag with 2219’s and Magnus stingers will group exactly the same as field tips out to 60m (66y). I can easily hold a 6” outside to outside group form a rest.

Darrin

Cossack · Post by **Cossack** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:49 pm

"I haven’t tried the Blazer Vanes, hope to this summer. Does anyone have a comment on them?"

Yup. Shoot 2" Blazers with 4 degree offset, 100 gr brass insert and 100 gr BH's, shoot great cold of hot weather. The weight forward (20+ % FOC) seems to make all the difference in the world.

wabi · Post by **wabi** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:03 pm

Northern wrote: I haven’t tried the Blazer Vanes, hope to this summer. Does anyone have a comment on them?
Darrin

Tried them a couple years ago, and they're all I use for my Excalibur now!
I've used 4 & 5" vanes & feathers, and the blazers are just as accurate as either with the durability of vanes and a weight close to feathers!
I am shooting 2215 aluminums with 100 gr points and get excellent accuracy.

ruttinbuck · Post by **ruttinbuck** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:50 am

bstout wrote:
ruttinbuck wrote:Enlighten me if you can on what guys hated about the 4 blade muzzys.
I'm not sure what anyone would have against any particular brand name of hunting head.

I don't care for 4 blade hunting heads of any kind including the very trendy Slick Trick. The reason is the difficulty involved with sharpening the head while it is attached to the shaft. I want a hunting arrow I can touch up in less than five minutes without taking it apart.

I shoot both reusable and disposable hunting heads. The reusable heads are made out of steel. They're almost indestructible and will last until you lose them. Disposable hunting heads that use replaceable blades are just that. Rarely have I taken two or more deer with the same head.

Replacing the blades on these disposable heads won't help.

Thanks for the input.I can see where the fixed or reusable heads would easier to maintain and durability would go without saying.These muzzys should do the trick until I get more advanced and into the game.I have a lansky sharpening setup that I think I will try with the blades apart.From what I have read today I have some homework to do.The FOC idea does'nt sound that foreign I just need to figure it out on my bolts and see if changing it will improve my accuracy.
Thanks for all the comments guys.RB

Northern · Post by **Northern** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:10 am

FOC calculator.

http://home.att.net/~sajackson/archery9.html

http://home.att.net/~sajackson/foc.html

ruttinbuck · Post by **ruttinbuck** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:16 pm

I just tried the FOC calculator Northern linked up,thanks Northern.
It tells me my bolts {gold tip laser 2} and muzzy 100gr bheads have an FOC of 6.8%.I am going to shoot them more before coming to a final conclusion.It does look like I am either going to need heavier bheads,heavier front inserts or lighter rear inserts to increas that front of center.The vane change is not being considered as of now.Just don't have enough arrow time to tackle that aspect yet.RB

ruttinbuck · Post by **ruttinbuck** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:35 pm

Just brain storming this FOC subject.
Would putting an O ring behind my bhead help.I would be increasing the front end weight and increasing the bolt length.I know it is not going to take alot to bring the FOC up enough.I think I am heading in the right direction.RB

Normous · Post by **Normous** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:22 pm

ruttinbuck wrote:Just brain storming this FOC subject.
Would putting an O ring behind my bhead help.I would be increasing the front end weight and increasing the bolt length.I know it is not going to take alot to bring the FOC up enough.I think I am heading in the right direction.RB

Something I do is cut the remove the rear insert and cut it in half to increase FOC. Also, I will remove the front insert and add a 20-30 gr set screw to the rear of the aluminum insert. Loctite it in. This gives me the FOC I prefer without adding a much heavier brass insert.

ruttinbuck · Post by **ruttinbuck** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:20 pm

Something I do is cut the remove the rear insert and cut it in half to increase FOC. Also, I will remove the front insert and add a 20-30 gr set screw to the rear of the aluminum insert. Loctite it in. This gives me the FOC I prefer without adding a much heavier brass insert.

How does one go about removing an insert on a carbon bolt?