11 year old girl defends herself

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saxman
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11 year old girl defends herself

Post by saxman »

> Shooting in Butte, Montana
>
> Shotgun preteen vs. illegal alien Home Invaders :
>
> Butte, Montana November 5, 2007
>
> Two illegal aliens, Raphael Resindez, 23, and Enrico Garza, 26,
> probably believed they would easily overpower home-alone 11 year old
> Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two-story home.
>
> It seems the two crooks never learned two things: they were in Montana
> and Patricia had been a clay shooting champion since she was nine.
>
> Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the
> front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and
> grabbed his 12 gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun.
>
> Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the
> first to catch a near point blank blast of buckshot from the
> 11-year-old's knee crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen
> and genitals.
>
> When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the left
> shoulder and staggered out into the street where he bled to death
> before medical help could arrive.
>
> It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45
> caliber handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. That
> victim, 50-year-old David Burien, was not so lucky. He died from stab
> wounds to the chest.
>
> Ever wonder why good stuff never makes NBC, CBS, PBS, & MSNBC, CNN, or
> ABC news........an 11 year old girl, properly trained, defended her
> home and herself......against two murderous, illegal aliens .......and
> she wins, she is still alive.
>
> Now that is Gun Control!
>
> Thought for the day:
>
> Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a
> drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist' Have a good day !
Scott
http://www.myspace.com/saxman1

Take a kid hunting
They don't remember their best day of watching TV

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Woody Williams
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Post by Woody Williams »

Woody Williams

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dutchhunter
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hom,e defence

Post by dutchhunter »

more people should be doing the same thing .we had a bunch of home invasions in are area a while ago thy got what was coming to them DUTCH
x-bowhunr
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Post by x-bowhunr »

Alright! Young Patricia is a heroine in my view. What she did supports our right and our duty to protect and defend homeland security both neighborhoodwide and nationwide. And our justice system better support her even though most media may not. :wink:
Timothy
mikej
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Post by mikej »

they got what was coming to them. to bad its not true
xbowkidd
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Post by xbowkidd »

I'm impressed with the 11 year old that killed the two home invaders with 3 shots from a .22
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saxman
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Post by saxman »

Sorry folks
I didn't take the time to research this.
Scott
http://www.myspace.com/saxman1

Take a kid hunting
They don't remember their best day of watching TV

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Skarek
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Location: Umeå, Sweden

Post by Skarek »

Is it only my who think that this is nothing else than brutal and sick (even if it were true)? I get scared of the thought that 11 year olds have access to guns. They are easily scared and no one can know who they might shoot by mistake...

But this might be my Swedish soul speaking. I/we have never understood the American need to use guns to "defend" themselves all the time. Statistics show that more "friendly" people is hurt by it than crooks...

On the other hand the Swedish law isn't perfect either. Whenever guns are used in Sweden against humans it becomes national news. Even if it is the police who uses them. I guess that at most 10-15 bullets has been fired by the police against people the last 10 years (including scaring shots).

There was an interesting case in the south of Sweden last year. A group of teenagers had terrorized a family and their son for quite a long time. The police had done nothing to stop it, even thou the family had been in contact with them many times. One late evening when the teenagers arrived at their farm with baseball bats and steel bars. This time the father shot one of them to death with a shotgun. He also injured one quite badly with another shot.

This case started an enormous discussion in Sweden where the line of self defense goes and if it is ever is ok to shoot a 15 year old boy. The question is also when it is ok to take care of something yourself when the government and police fails.

Everyone was really interested in what the court system would say. The interesting this is that they avoided the subject. After a long trial they stated that the father had a mental illness at the time of the shooting, but now were cured. By Swedish law you can not be put in jail due to a crime you committed due to a mental sickness. You are put in a mental hospital until you are cured. But as he was cured at the trial he was a free man...


The magnitude this story had in Sweden shows how far we are from the American system. This is why it is so totally impossible for us to understand the American violent weaponised system.
mikej
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Post by mikej »

saxman wrote:Sorry folks
I didn't take the time to research this.
no worries sax it is still a good read
Pydpiper
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Post by Pydpiper »

Good story none the less. :D
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kennisondan
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Post by kennisondan »

Sharek ; I would have cause to doubt the statistical evidence you quoted... I beleive you would find that the mere showing of a weapon without pulling the trigger stops thousands of crimes yearly...criminals who are shot at or shot and not killed do not seek medical attention and are likely underreported... it is not how many are killed or injured it is how many innocent lives are saved..
it is more dangerous to fly, to drive and to stand in a storm where lightning is present than to own a gun... when the concealed carry and open carry laws are put in place crime plummets...criminal want easy prey and leave persons likely armed alone.
I also do not share your contention that an eleven year old montana born american may shoot almost anyone out of fear, after two years of safe gun handling.. that is more than many troops get before deployment.
If you choose not to defend your self, that makes me safer, actually.. I would want everyone to have a sign in the yard... believe in right to keep and bear arms/armed and will shoot if necessary... and the others : no gun here .. will call police quickly if you break in ....
I deal with criminals all the time and can tell you they respect a gun owner and prey on the non=gun owners....and criminals wiill never be disarmed in america....also americal will never be overrun either cause the general populace is armed in large percentage and quite capable of safely handling and also dispatching a criminal who sorely needs it ... with a gun....gun training, gun ownership... that stops crime or at least moves it over a county or two to where the more gently folk can be found... proved in miami dade county florida.. carry laws put into effect... lots of gun ownership and training... first year : violent crime like murder and rapes dropped ten percent... same year next door.. no county wide gun owhership. : it went up ten percent ... coincidence ? not by a long shot...
I am not angry and am not putting down on your opinion but the stance taken can be responded to....the law will not protect you ... the police will not protect you... and if your government decided to round up all the disarmed populace and gas them like hitler did the jews and gypsy;s after he disarmed them first .... you would wish you had embraced that crazy american thing about self defense and self determination and the inherent right to life and self protection/self reliance..
I hope you never need a gun and don't have one... I hope I always have one and never need one... I would wager you will be less lucky than I will before our lives are over...there is lots of attempted violent crime the odds are it will visit on you or yours... the odds are I will stop it and you will not...
that is the odds and the percentages and the beleifs we crazy americans hold...
I respect your right to not be armed and if I am nearby I would save you and your family if I could...
may god bless you and keep you free from harm and in peace always..
my god bless me with the same and offer me a clean shot if it comes down to that ..
LOl
dk
life guard at the gene pool
Skarek
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:43 am
Location: Umeå, Sweden

Post by Skarek »

(First, sorry for hijacking this thread)

kennisondan: Hmm. I'm not that surprised of your answer. It is a quite common pro guns argument. In a way my post might have been misunderstood.

First about my quote. I have no plain statistics, that I confess. It was based on facts (or things claimed to be facts), things stated and so on that reaches this side of the Atlantic. More on this later...

I'm not against the concept of owning a gun. I'm not speaking out that it should be outlawed in the states. I more raise my eyebrows over the concept of using deadly force against a fellow human and the reason to own one for self defense. My reasons, well...

I know criminals have guns. The criminals in Sweden also have guns. It is quite easy to buy an illegal gun in Sweden, it is claimed. So the guns are out there in the hands of criminals. The thing is that when they know that their prey don't have a gun, they skip using theirs. I think this is one of basis of my argument. If both sides have guns in a conflict, both sides fear for their life and have accepted that they can use their gun. The result, a lot of people shooting each other.

Sweden is a quite small country, 8 million, but as you might know our country's "standard of life"/"social development level" are on the same level as in the states (maybe even slightly higher, hard to really say as I only seen the states thou camera eyes). As I stated in my post the police might have fired 15 shots in the last 10 years... There must be a reason. The reason can not only be that our criminals are nicer guys than you criminals.

The removal of the guns owned by ordinary people would create chaos in USA. Your criminals are used to use of their guns. They believe that they meet a person with a gun. So they have accepeted that they might use their guns. I just wonder if this is the ultimate solution. I belive not, but this is me. I belive it is the hands of the lawinforcement to fight crime.

It is not up to me to decide, in any way, if you wish to have handguns in your country, It is up to you. But as a person looking at the system from the outside I can question if it is the right decision.

This boils back to the reason I wrote my first post in this thread. What would have happened if the supposed young girl would not have had the shotgun. I don't know. The criminals might have taken their stuff and been on their way. They might have raped and murdered her. I don't know. One thing I do know is that I'm against the use of deadly force against any human, even criminals. To look lightly on the killing of 2 people scares me, even if they are criminals. Becasue who drawes the line between criminal and not criminal, is it always clear? Is tresspassing alone reason enouth to shoot somebody?

In the end I think justice shall meet all criminals, but this I think is the governments job not each citizen. When people gets scared they do stupid things, I do stupid things. A scared person with a handgun can do really stupid things...

Lastly I just want to state one more thing. A large part of the European contries look at the gun policies in the states with an raised eyebrow. We have not implemented a system like yours. We are fed with media questioning your decicions about "guns for self defence". In part this might be propaganda, but in part I think you might benefit from asking why you need the guns and we don't. Why Europeans can't even understand the concept, the reason etc.

I don't know if I really reached a solution in this post. I just hope I in some way more clearly stated my thought on the subject.

And in the end I must say :lol: over the fact I was called Sharek. It is absolutly nothing against you kennisondan, understnad this!!! It happens, alot. It is just funny becasue I have noticed that this is VERY common missinterpretation of my nick. I think I'm called Sharek more often than Skarek and never any other missinterpretations. I have always wondered why.

/Peace, love and understanding.
Sweden over and out.
Skarek
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:43 am
Location: Umeå, Sweden

Post by Skarek »

Ok. I see Grizzly Adam started a nother thread bout my first post. I'll move myself over to that thread.
aerostarp
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:28 am
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Post by aerostarp »

Sharek ; I would have cause to doubt the statistical evidence you quoted... I beleive you would find that the mere showing of a weapon without pulling the trigger stops thousands of crimes yearly...criminals who are shot at or shot and not killed do not seek medical attention and are likely underreported... it is not how many are killed or injured it is how many innocent lives are saved..
it is more dangerous to fly, to drive and to stand in a storm where lightning is present than to own a gun... when the concealed carry and open carry laws are put in place crime plummets...criminal want easy prey and leave persons likely armed alone.
I also do not share your contention that an eleven year old montana born american may shoot almost anyone out of fear, after two years of safe gun handling.. that is more than many troops get before deployment.
If you choose not to defend your self, that makes me safer, actually.. I would want everyone to have a sign in the yard... believe in right to keep and bear arms/armed and will shoot if necessary... and the others : no gun here .. will call police quickly if you break in ....
I deal with criminals all the time and can tell you they respect a gun owner and prey on the non=gun owners....and criminals wiill never be disarmed in america....also americal will never be overrun either cause the general populace is armed in large percentage and quite capable of safely handling and also dispatching a criminal who sorely needs it ... with a gun....gun training, gun ownership... that stops crime or at least moves it over a county or two to where the more gently folk can be found... proved in miami dade county florida.. carry laws put into effect... lots of gun ownership and training... first year : violent crime like murder and rapes dropped ten percent... same year next door.. no county wide gun owhership. : it went up ten percent ... coincidence ? not by a long shot...
I am not angry and am not putting down on your opinion but the stance taken can be responded to....the law will not protect you ... the police will not protect you... and if your government decided to round up all the disarmed populace and gas them like hitler did the jews and gypsy;s after he disarmed them first .... you would wish you had embraced that crazy american thing about self defense and self determination and the inherent right to life and self protection/self reliance..
I hope you never need a gun and don't have one... I hope I always have one and never need one... I would wager you will be less lucky than I will before our lives are over...there is lots of attempted violent crime the odds are it will visit on you or yours... the odds are I will stop it and you will not...
that is the odds and the percentages and the beleifs we crazy americans hold...
I respect your right to not be armed and if I am nearby I would save you and your family if I could...
may god bless you and keep you free from harm and in peace always..
my god bless me with the same and offer me a clean shot if it comes down to that ..
This is one of the best written responses for gun ownership and self-defense that I have read in a long time. Well done Kennisondan.
aerostarp
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:28 am
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Post by aerostarp »

Skarek said:
The thing is that when they know that their prey don't have a gun, they skip using theirs. I think this is one of basis of my argument.
You obviously do not have the "ghetto" element we have here in the US. Many people are shot and killed after completely complying with the demands of these "people". You would be a fool (not for long) to maintain your attitude here.

I have 2 young boys who have been around firearms and trained by me since they were 3 (THREE) and they are respectful of these weapons and know how to use them. They are now 14 and 12. The guns are locked up in a "gun closet" but each boy knows where the key is in case of an emergency. We shoot, reload and hunt regularly and for them the firearm is a piece of equipment which demands caution and respect. They know NEVER to touch one either in our own home or elsewhere unless I am present and give them permission. They have had access to them since they were little kids with my supervision and so the aura of the "forbidden fruit" never developed in them. It was a decision I made years ago with a lot of soul searching and reading material from the NRA.

We have a large population of vicious criminals and gang-members here in the US that kill helpless victims without regard for anything and the age of the attackers has dropped dramatically. It is no more comforting to be shot to death by an 11 y/o than by an adult. And believe me if I tell you they know what they are doing. It is often a ritual for initiation into a gang. To be unarmed is to make yourself the sacrificial lamb. This is not Sweden.
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