bolt weight

todd · Post by **todd** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:53 pm

I have the alum. bolts that came with my Phoenix and some Excalibur carbon bolts. I want to work on hunting bolt weight and FOC, but I am not sure on the weights of the ones I have.

What are the weights of these bolts?

What is everyone finding they like for bolt weight for best all around performance with penetration and a reasonably quiet shot as slight priority over speed?

What are you running for vanes on your bolts if not the standard 4” offset ones they come with?

diesel · Post by **diesel** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:06 pm

Welcome to the forum Todd. Best to get a scales and wiegh the bolts your self. Go to Gold Tip's web site look under product and you will see a heading for FOC. Fill in the eights and it will give your FOC.
Then the rest is up to you and research you do on this site or on the web. Because in the end it will be something that works for you and your bow.
On the scales you can get one for $20.00 to $40.00 that will do the job just fine. Do a search on scales and see what most are using. I gave mine to a friend this weekend so I can not tell you what model mine is.
Have fun and good luck. I use 275 gr. bolts with 125gr. Slick trick Mag. out of a Exocet 200 FOC is 15% and works great for me.

vixenmaster · Post by **vixenmaster** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:25 am

well now lets see which your interested in ? carbon or alum or both ? i use both & my 2216 with vanes weigh 400 gr. alum inserts front and back with 100 gr pts. my rear insert i have cut down to 3/8". my 2219 with 100 gr pts weigh 445 gr. my GTII's with 110 brass front insert 20" weigh 405 gr with 100 gr pt. they can go abit lighter or much heavier if you build them yourself.

Cossack · Post by **Cossack** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:31 am

I'm using carbons in my Phoenix and Vortex. They are Gold Tip II's, stock nock, but 110 gr brass inserts and 2" Blazer vanes. Using a 100 gr tip that gets me 405 gr total and FOC over 18%. Great accuracy with Slick Trick mags. If you want slightly higher FOC add 125 gr slick, results in 20% FOC. That one I use in a 355 fps bow. A heavier arrow will be a bit quieter and have a bit more kinetic energy (penetration), BUT in will also have a steeper trajectory; making more precise ranging a must.
Having learned that there is no such thing as a quiet crossbow, nor lack of penetration with a 405 gr arrow (complete passthroughs on deer are the norm), I've settled more on the side of speed and lower trajectory.

pokynojoe · Post by **pokynojoe** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:37 am

Last year, while recovering from some minor surgery I thought it might be interesting to see if I could figure out what the mean weight of arrows that members on this forum seemed to prefer.

I performed a search of the forum for "bolt weight", "best arrow weight" and several others. Whoever responded with the bolt weight they preferred and model of bow they shot, I put into a simple spread sheet. I ignored arrow material, components, type of broadhead etc., because there were just too many different kinds.

What I came up with was weight of arrow in grains per pound of draw weight of the bow. Surprisingly, this was pretty consistent between 2.5grs/lb to 3.0grs/lb. with the optimum weight some where around 2.7grs/lb. give or take a smidge.

Now, this is hardly scientific, and I'm not sure what this actually means. But according to the posts in this forum, this seems to be the weight of arrow that most members are using, regardless of the model of Excalibur or whether the arrow material is aluminum or carbon. As stated, this doesn't address how the arrow is constructed or what components are used, or what the FOC is, but it might give someone a place to start when the question comes up: "What weight arrow is preferred by the members?"

Joe

crazyfarmer · Post by **crazyfarmer** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:02 pm

275-325 seems to be the average shaft weight most like

I shoot a 275grain shaft, but ill probably step up to a 300grain weight this year

as far as vanes, most use the 2inch blazer vanes with a 3-4 degree offset

Michael Stogre · Post by **Michael Stogre** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:05 pm

How is it that we haven't figured out a formula like they have for
compound bows: minimum of 5 grains per inch on a 30 inch arrow with a
70 pound draw wt.?

On the Italian web site run by Mattias (www.cacciaebalestraaltervista.org)
There is a discussion of what is the best arrow wt. There the author suggests a formula of 2.7 grains per pound of draw weight.
For my phoenix this comes out to an arrow of 472.5 grains. Presently,
I am using xx78 superslams in 2216 with blazer vanes, and 150 grain
heads to give me a total wt of 470 grains.

Are there any physicists or engineers on here who can tell us what the
ideal wt. should be for crossbows. For the moment I'm sticking with the
2.7 formula. Excalibur's 350 minimum seems too light. Or am I way off base here. Answers please!

todd · Post by **todd** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:50 pm

Thanks for the info. I shoot a compound and trad bows, but the xbow is a newer thing.

I have 2216's 20" with three 4" vanes that came with my Phoenix. I also got some Excalibur Firebolts, but there didn't seem to be any spine options for them. I should have thought of that, but I guess I figured due to the length of them and the xbow design it was not as critical. The Firebolts are Easton C2, but I am not sure what the spine is. I guess I can find the 2216 weight off a shaft chart.

Where do you get the brass inserts? I use them for my trad bow in carbon shafts to get weight and FOC up. I have not found them yet for the xbow.

todd · Post by **todd** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:54 pm

bstout wrote:It cracks me up when someones shooting arrows meant for a Vixen out of an Exomax, and can't understand why their arrows won't group well except with target tips.

Their next move is to try and find hunting heads that fly like target tips.

Use an arrow combination that's matched to the bow and almost any hunting head that's properly installed will group tightly.

Many times the arrow head itself wrongly gets blamed for poor arrow flight.

So true. Is there a chart anywhere that list the shafts for each bow and recommended point weights? I know for a bow there are many variations to a perfect spined arrow with draw length, weight, arrow length, shaft, point weight, and may other things. With the Excalibur I assume there are a very narrow number of options.

roly · Post by **roly** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:33 pm

Todd I can't find them either, So I ordered some from Cabelas I ordered standard 5/16 , I hope they fit.

Grizzly Adam · Post by **Grizzly Adam** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:11 pm

bstout wrote:
todd wrote: Make sure your arrows weigh enough.

I have long preferred arrows on the heavy side. There are many advantages to shooting heavy arrows, especially out of heavy bows!

todd · Post by **todd** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:16 pm

bstout wrote:
todd wrote: With the Excalibur I assume there are a very narrow number of options.
Nope!

There are a whole bunch of different arrow/insert combination's that'll work great.

Make sure your arrows weigh enough.

I would think with so few variables to the xbow from one to the other of the same weight and one shooter to the other there would be fewer shaft variables so fewer options in bolt and bolt length than working with cutting full length shafts for bows and playing with tuning. Are the shafts real forgiving as to spine and point weight? Do you paper tune or bare shaft? Are there some good sources for xbow draw weight and shaft selections with point weight ranges I can work with?

mikej · Post by **mikej** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:12 pm

what is the estimated weight of a 2219 off the shelf with 4 inch vanes does anybody know

Michael Stogre · Post by **Michael Stogre** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:10 pm

Here is the reply I received from Matthias in Italy re ideal arrow wt.

Hello Michael,
we found this formula after many years of experience using the crossbows in hunting and in targeting. So is not a math equation only the result of human experience, considering many many different factors.

Best regards

Matthias/Compagnia Balestrieri Venatores
www.cacciaebalestra.altervista.org

So they took the inductive, empirical approach to come up with the 2.7 grains per pound of draw wt. I assume the lesser dynamic efficiency of a crossbow + the shorter power stroke would have to be factored in to the
equation. But am still awaiting answers from excalibur users.

MJS

hikerman · Post by **hikerman** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:26 pm

When I bought my exocet175#. It came with gold tip II with 5" vanes.

Then I made my own with brass inserts & 2" blazers. Both 100g tips. Nexted switched to Beamens 2" blazers and 125 tips.

Next alum. 2219 2" blazers & 100 heads. Now alum 2219 22" long 2" blazers and 125 tips which puts me at 500g overall. I like it, may cut them down to 20" long and try it.