Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

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Riflemanz
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Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Riflemanz » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:31 pm

The wisconsin bowhunters association sent out a postcard today telling its bowhunters to vote agains't having a crossbow season in wisconsin.Just what we need,hunters telling other hunters what to hunt with.
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by frisky » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:33 pm

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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by j.krug » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:04 pm

Riflemanz wrote:The wisconsin bowhunters association sent out a postcard today telling its bowhunters to vote agains't having a crossbow season in wisconsin.Just what we need,hunters telling other hunters what to hunt with.
That's pretty crappy!!
What a bunch of knobs. Who do think they are to try and influence who hunts with what??
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Limbs and Sticks » Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:05 am

It's not just Wis. it's all over the country, I think everyone here hunts or has hunted with compounds, stick bows all kinds of rifles and shotguns and we as a group don't care what someone else hunts with,this is why the folks here represent the best FORUM on the net



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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by saxman » Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:35 pm

rancid crabtree,first off,welcome to the forum :D
Why Does the WBA care what weapon anyone uses to hunt with?
Let's not judge eachother but rather embrace our differences.
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by B-Logger » Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:07 pm

Congratulations on a pure political type answer. It sounds almost like it came from the Michigan Bowhunters. It still does not answer the question as to why one group should be allowed to determine what another group does, or in this instance, shoots.

Please read the following word carefully: Crossbow. Now please read those last 3 letters. Oh, that's right, some do not think it is a bow.....
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Riflemanz » Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:49 pm

I wish all hunters and sportsman in wisconsin could have a vote on allowing the use of crossbows.I'm sure ma & pa stores and hotels and restaurants would love the business.I'm sure the made in America crossbow companies would love having more business.
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Moxie » Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:08 pm

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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Riflemanz » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:47 am

rancid crabtree wrote:
Riflemanz wrote:I wish all hunters and sportsman in wisconsin could have a vote on allowing the use of crossbows.I'm sure ma & pa stores and hotels and restaurants would love the business.I'm sure the made in America crossbow companies would love having more business.

Again, there are no laws in Wisconsin in regards to crossbow ownership. As such, there is no need for a vote since anybody can purchase one and use one right now. I agree, the American made crossbow industry would enjoy the increased sales as would the statewide shop owners selling them.
You just can't use them for archery Deer season unless your handicapped or over 65yrs old.
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by awshucks » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:14 am

You just can't use them for archery Deer season unless your handicapped or over 65yrs old.
But you will before long. The last thing RC and his small group want is a vote as they know the average hunter doesn't give a rat's ass which bow is used to fill a tag. When the sportsmen 'voted' in Nj it was close to 70% for inc. NJBH screamed and some still are, so they ran an internal members survey and ended up having to admit it was 'split down the middle' w/ no real numbers ever posted.

These anti xbow inc arguments always boil down to 'my deer, my way' or "Hurrah for me, screw you".

I've been following and supporting full inc for about 4 yrs now. I watched the Marlowe Report [PBS hired gun] get debunked, the infamous Durango report [wrong target pics posted and then scrubbed] yada yada yada.

Soon, Wi will have the harvest stats for Mi, Pa, Nj, and Tx to check out. It's just a matter of time now.
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Woody Williams » Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:36 pm

Rancid,

My oh my... Didn't ever expect to see you here.

If the WB (whatever) really wants to grow hunting instead of being a hindrance they would do a little research and then they would find out that 65 is way too old to have a cut off point in allowing the use of a crossbow. State after state's data has shown that the number of bowhunters drops significantly startting at age 50. Why wait until age 65 when quite few would have dropped out 10 to 15 years prior? A bowhunter that is out that long is not going to come back..

But, I'm sure that the WB (Whatever) doesn't want to be confused with facts.

Hopefully some day soon the fish and game folks in Wisconsin will see that a vocal minority of "citizens of the state" are only being selfish in not allowing archers anotehr choice in archery hunting gear. One that will not negatively affect any other hunter that chooses not to use it.
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by awshucks » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:21 pm

You are certainly entitled to that opinion but I doubt you know if that applies to the citizens of WI.
we're not talking the citizens of Wi, but rather some members of WBH.
I am not familiar with the Marlowe Report but would be interested in seeing it.
He's or was a member of PBS that 'hired' him for his opinion. Not Norb in any event.
I would also be interested in seeing this report as I have not heard about it. Who conducted it?
None other than Mike Brust. The gist of it was supposed group capabilities of an xbow at 100 yds. W/ a bent arrow, lol. Moot, since no one we know shoots at deer at 100 yds w/ xbows, but there is a Bozo on every bus.


Speaking of which, didn't one of your icons claim to have taken in excess of 2000 critters w/ a stick bow? You know, the one y'all hold 'Classics' for every year? Apparently, everything from chipmunks to chimpanzees, including owls, hawks and eagles? Not to mention the elk at 187 yds?

How about the namesakes for P&Y, didn't they advocate lobbing arrows at game at 80 or so yards to 'range' their targeted game? Shoot at javelinas at 'over two blocks'? The same group that called xbows the 'biggest threat to archery hunting'? Must have been pre-CWD.
You are certainly entitled to that opinion but I doubt you know if that applies to the citizens of WI.
That's right, forgot 'you are different', lol.

Woody:
State after state's data has shown that the number of bowhunters drops significantly starting at age 50.
The report I read used 42 yrs old for the starting point of the drop-off.

Rancid:
I'm afraid you have me at a bit of a disadvantage. How do I know you? Or you, me?
You're well known my friend. The honey vs vinegar approach is refreshing, however. I know you are a trad shooter. Truth be told, if that was the only alternative to an xbow, I doubt we'd be having this 'discussion'.

Your baby went out w/ the bath water in about 1969, and Mr. Allen was swinging the bucket, lol.
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Tom » Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:28 pm

rancid crabtree wrote:......................This long standing crossbow position (that precedes my tenure on the board) is based on the foundation of what a "Bow" is and the definition of it. You can read that definition at this link.

http://www.pope-young.org/bowhunting_equipment.asp
.................

Who made Pope-young the place to define what a bow is.

Use proper dictionaries for your definition and not something that comes from a Corporation that is only trying to look out for it's own benifit.

Lets look out for hunters, all hunters and not just a few. BTW, crossbows were classed as archery equipment long before compounds were designed or developed. So if that is the truth, then crossbows are or have more rights to the class of bow or archery equipment then compounds. crossbows have over 800 years of history in the archery world, while compounds were only designed in 1967 and patented in 1969.
Last edited by Tom on Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Tom » Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:40 pm

rancid crabtree wrote:
bstout wrote:................
bstout wrote:We shoot arrows from our crossbows and not bolts. Bolts have no fletchings, are generally made of all metal and are quite a bit shorter than arrows.

I use the term bolts as that is how the state of WI defines the projectiles fired by a crossbow. I typically speak in terms of how this issue pertains to WI.
That is the main problem with the Anti-crossbow world, they use terminology to either confuse or misrepresent their targeted objection. The true definition of a crossbow bolt is like Bob said: a metal prod with no fletchings and about 9 inches in length. A more current definition is a shaft with fletchings and a point of up to 14 inches in length. This latter definition is not an official one but one that is common. But even if you do go with that last one, it does not apply since all our arrows are around 20 inches, some a little shorter or longer.

BTW, it is pretty sad that people will start up a corporation to seclude one group of people from enjoying a pastime that they want to keep for themselves.
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Tom » Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:39 pm

rancid crabtree wrote:
Who made Pope-young the place to define what a bow is.
You will have to take it up with Pope and Young. My guess is that since they were first, they got to set the definitions. Had a crossbow org organized prior to them, this may be a moot point but history and definitions are what they are at this point. But that is more of a national commentary on the state of affairs. I come to this from a standpoint of it's effect on WI.
I guess that if you are the first people to say this or that makes it RIGHT. Crossbows back then probably did not feel the need to form a group to exclude a certain group of people or to form a group to advance only their own means. Because they were first does not mean they are Correct with their definition. WE can go through alot of history to find many examples of where people said things to make rules to benefit them or their groups that were not right (Slaves,Hitler, Obama, ex).
rancid crabtree wrote:
crossbows were classed as archery equipment long before compounds were designed or developed. So if that is the truth, then crossbows are or have more rights to the class of bow or archery equipment then compounds. crossbows have over 800 years of history in the archery world, while compounds were only designed in 1967 and patented in 1969.
True but I think a bow that is drawn with human muscle power and held with human muscle power through all points in the draw cycle and one that is never locked into a set position precedes the crossbow, so by that very distinction, it would not matter if the bow had wheels or not. But again, this is a conversation of a global nature and I think this matter has advanced beyond that discussion making of little value to the citizens of each state. also, truth be known, a 60 pound longbow and recurve and compound all need to be drawn to that 60 pound peak weight by human power so regardless of holding weight, all three bows have to be drawn through a peak force curve by the archer. They all must also be held at full draw (unlocked) by that same archer so there is no reason to separate any of the three bows allowed in WI which is why they are all lumped under the term "Bow"
Total disagreement with your above statement as HOG WASH. Actually the hogs would probually not want anything to do with that statement. What about the compound bow that has 99% let off. I have seen a video of the bow hanging at full draw, with an arrow from a hook in a tree. Only thing keeping the bow at full draw was the weight of the riser, so this bow does not require the shooter to hold the bow back with his/her own physical strength.

Face the fact that compounds (vertical) and crossbows BOTH GIVE ADVANTAGES over the longbow and recurve bows. Yes the advantages are different, but in general they are equal. To EXCLUDE crossbows and not COMPOUNDS (vertical) for these advantages is just wrong. If your going to EXCLUDE CROSSBOWS, then EXCLUDE COMPOUNDS (vertical) as well, class them together.


rancid crabtree wrote:So I think we can all agree that if someday in the distant future, crossbows are added to the archery deer season in WI, it will in an archery deer season that was created because of WBH, advanced and improved through the efforts of WBH and protected from harm by WBH for the last 70 years. If crossbows are to have any place in the archery deer season, it will be because WBH created a season for crossbows to even be considered in the first place. Those handicapped and elderly hunters using their crossbows are doing so because WBH when before them and set a table for them. Those that hope to include crossbows for the able bodied are also seeking to be included into a season that is there for them to seek inclusion into because of WBH. Those that care for history would do well to remember this when they speak ill of WBH.
This season that your so Uppity about trying to defend it and the EXCLUSION of CROSSBOWS ....... ummmmm it was not fought for in the beginning for vertical compounds. To say that the WBH fought for that is not right, you just decided that it was. (BACK to that "what I say is correct and that is the way it is, even if it is legally wrong).

Actually the Supreme Court of the USA ruled it illegal to stop a person with a disability from hunting with a crossbow, that it was an act of DISCRIMINATION to do so. They also ruled that to apply extra fees for permits for the disabled to hunt with crossbows was also an act of discrimination unless these extra fees were applied to the able bodied hunters as well.So you see, your WBH did not create the season for the disabled, your Supreme Court said it was in your constitution.

As I said above, class compounds (vertical) with crossbows and then there would not be any complaining from people without personal interests.
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