Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

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Tom
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Tom » Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:17 pm

rancid crabtree wrote:
Tom wrote:
Tom wrote: To EXCLUDE crossbows and not COMPOUNDS (vertical) for these advantages is just wrong. If your going to EXCLUDE CROSSBOWS, then EXCLUDE COMPOUNDS (vertical) as well, class them together.
That ship has sailed in WI. (yes, we do have a coastal region) One is legal and the other illegal. That is defined in statute and it will take the will of the people to change it. That will happen via the Conservation Congress if it is to happen at all. If it does then it will be the right thing to do.
Tom wrote:This season that your so Uppity about trying to defend it and the EXCLUSION of CROSSBOWS .


Tom wrote: Actually the Supreme Court of the USA ruled it illegal to stop a person with a disability from hunting with a crossbow, that it was an act of DISCRIMINATION to do so.
Thankfully WI is not in violation of said laws. The statutes allow for not only the handicapped but also the elderly to participate on par with able bodied Bowhunters.
SEE BELOW
Tom wrote: They also ruled that to apply extra fees for permits for the disabled to hunt with crossbows was also an act of discrimination unless these extra fees were applied to the able bodied hunters as well.
Thankfully the elderly (simply by virtue of their age) are allowed crossbow usage with not need for a permit or fee. The same is true for the permanently disabled. The class A disabled hunter can even hunt from his or her vehicle. Class B and C may have a fee to prove they are still disabled. I think this is the same way for temporary disabled parking ability. In order to establish that you should still be issued a disabled parking permit, there may be a certain fee. I am not well versed in this portion of the law. If however, our DNR was in violation of the law, I'm certain that would have been pointed out to them by the ADA.
Ummmmm that extra fee you mentioned above "In order to establish that you should still be issued a disabled parking permit, there may be a certain fee. I am not well versed in this portion of the law." is a violation according to your Supreme Court. Just in case you want to look it up, it was in a ruling in a case involving COL. Many other States since then ruled for full inclusion just because there are too many delicate steps to get around because of that ruling. As per the disabled parking permits, could you imagine if someone were to file a discriminatory complaint and the Supreme Court ruled that it was discriminatory to apply the fee which is only applied to the disabled and not able bodied. Many door they would like to keep closed.
Tom wrote:As I said above, class compounds (vertical) with crossbows and then there would not be any complaining from people without personal interests.
That is up to the citizens of WI. If that is the route they take. It will be the will of the residents of the state that make such a change.
You still do not get the fact of things do you. You are arguing that crossbows should not be included because SAID ADVANTAGES but you want to keep vertical compounds include even if they give many huge advantages over recurves and long bows. That 99% let off bow blows out the arguement that the anti's use that you (vertical shooters) need to draw the bow back in the presence of the animal, not like crossbows which can cock the bow much earlier, like you can with the 99% let off bow.

You also must be a political person as per your side stepping direct questions. I at first thought you might be able to discuss this as a civil person with meaningful dialog, but I see that is not possible as your reteric is old.
Tom
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Limbs and Sticks
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Limbs and Sticks » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:36 pm

Just curious, does the wba pick and choose who hunts and when or do common folks get to vote and on what, like every place else the deep pockets lose in time :wink:
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Limbs and Sticks » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:32 pm

How many people make up this conservation congress, if it's a couple of hand fulls then that's not the peoples vote, it's all politics and the majority of hunters have no say.

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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Limbs and Sticks » Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:24 pm

Ballot machine's, that answer's all question's, as long as there used and the same, oh this is for every body's good people hold the same position's xbows won't make it for a while there, I was union for 25yrs, I know how those machines work with the right skunks useing them. I'm done with this

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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Woody Williams » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:17 pm

Rancid,

Lets just say we talked several times on the Michigan Sportsman's site.

Glad things worked out for the Michiganders despite your "help". ;)

You still banned from there?

Guys and gals,

The way Wisconsin works it they have votes in the Conservation Congress and who ever can get the most people to the meetings to vote gets their way.. period. Rancid may say it is the citizens of Wisconsin, but that is not true at all. There has NEVER been a statewide referendum on crossbows. Only these meetings where the deck is stacked.

Sort of the way Obama won the Iowa caucuses…

My advice is to ignore Mr. Rancid. He is here just to sharpen his anti-crossbow debating skills..
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Limbs and Sticks » Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:41 am

Woody I knew he was a SKUNK, any time you have BALLOT MACHINES for something like this the fix is in before the first vote, you have people making rules who never hunted in their life, any time you got lobbyist there's money, deep pockets win, nothing fair or honest about WI.

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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Limbs and Sticks » Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:11 am

Ballot machines get rigged all the time, no I can't prove it there, but it's happening for sure, money calls the shots, not votes.

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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Limbs and Sticks » Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:35 am

I know a BS when I see one and your full of it.DON'T NEED TO LIVE THERE TO SEE IT, or know the fine details all you have to do is talk , it's self-explanatory I feel sorry for the folks in WI. to have someone like you, who has his finger in representing what, who, and how someone hunts,you try to walk both sides of the st. xbows are coming, good for those folks one day soon I hope
DONE
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Limbs and Sticks » Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:51 am

MUST HAVE HIT A NERVE, you know what you are and about get Lost.

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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by NSIan » Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:58 am

Actually Rancid, you had hoped to spin your magic words of wisdom on a crossbow forum, but judging from the lack of support, I think, personally, you may have barked up the wrong tree. The more you post, the less genuine you and your WBH is.

In an effort to get the truth about the WBH, I cruised your site.....
Great site if you are a "bowhunter". Other than that, alot of hate, rage and anger towards other hunters, and forms of hunting.
Truly sad bunch.....I would suggest your lack of members is directly related to the hardline stance the WBH has against every other form of hunting in the stae of Wisconsin.

Oh, and for the record, it cracks me up you had/ have to hire a lobbyist to peddle your wares....

So, I found this stuff on your site......its entertaining to say the least.....


Question #86 in this year’s Spring Questionnaire requests lowering the age for those that can use crossbows during the archery season to 55 years old.


This question is another attempt by a few people promoting crossbows to expand their use in Wisconsin by forcing them further into the archery season. It’s a bad idea for several reasons.

• First of all, the question is worded to suggest that it’s for those 55 to 65 with medical infirmities, but goes on to allow crossbows for everyone in this age group, most of whom are fortunately, very healthy. In fact, crossbow use for everyone over 65 was never voted on or supported by the public. It was secretly attached to another bill in 2001 by a lame-duck politician and passed even though Wisconsin already had, and still has, much better laws that allow for crossbow use by those that are actually handicapped and deserve the advantage, regardless of their age.

• In 2005 there was an attempt to expand this advantage to any age, which was just a way of saying crossbows for everyone during archery season. The sportsmen and women of Wisconsin spoke clearly in response to that question and overwhelmingly defeated it at the 2005 Spring Hearings in 68 of 72 counties by over a 2 to 1 margin, statewide. This year’s question is nothing more than another attempt to incrementally do the same thing.

• Since we voted it down in 2005, it’s only got worse for those trying to push crossbows into archery seasons. Most significantly, it is now clear that modern crossbow performance is no longer anything like that of archery equipment. The PSE TAC 15, one of several new crossbows, is part AR15 assault rifle, and boasts 1 inch groups at 100 yards. It produces over 3 times more kinetic energy at 100 yards than a modern compound bow does at 10 feet!

• Since 2005 we have also seen what happened in southern states like Georgia and Tennessee that changed their archery seasons to allow crossbows - with the promise of big increases in hunter recruitment and retention (and revenue). It didn’t happen. License sales for their combined seasons actually declined from the initial archery-only numbers, as some hunter simply switched to the easier weapon and others just quit.

• Millions have been spent by the crossbow industry to force crossbows into archery seasons instead of promoting their use in rifle, shotgun, muzzleloader, pistol, or even dedicated crossbow seasons. And while early on, they convinced a few states with serious deer problems; most states, like Wisconsin have said NO to crossbows in archery seasons except for the handicapped or elderly.

In Wisconsin and across the country, license sales are declining for most hunting opportunities – except bowhunting. Why? Bowhunting is growing because it isn’t about getting a deer as expediently as possible. It’s just the opposite; bowhunters intentionally hunt by restricted rules just to put more “hunt” into “hunting”. Bowhunting is about the challenge of developing hunting skills and waiting for the quarry to come within range of a short-range weapon that is dependent on the archer’s own strength and skill to operate successfully - at the exquisitely intense moments leading up to the shot. Crossbows remove much of that challenge and would change our archery season to still another hunting season that is struggling to retain participants. If someone is looking for a faster or less challenging way to harvest deer, Wisconsin already provides plenty of those opportunities. Why would we even consider screwing-up one of our greatest ongoing success stories to support the few people that are pushing for this change?

• And with the deer herd declining across the state, why would we want to expand the use of this highly effective weapon over a long season, at a time when we need to restrict or reduce the deer harvest in many areas?


Please vote NO on question #86 Thank You!


And This is from an Administrator on the forum......I think dude is paraniod!!!!!

Dick, WBH Directors meetings are closed in light of recent advice that we hold them in closed session. Here is why.

ALL WBH members are encouraged to attend the members portion of the directors meetings. Simply contact the office at least 7 days in advance with your name and the issue you want to discuss and you will have the full attention of the board at the beginning of the meeting. The WBH board of Directors will next meet on June 12, 2010 (most likely in Stevens Point)
Before I go any further, I must inform you that there are those (people and other orgs) out there that mean to do real harm to WBH. Two, newly formed Wisconsin crossbow orgs, the animal rights folks and others that hope to harm WBH and Bowhunting are out there right now. I am asking for you to accept this reality. If you do not think such a thing is taking place, the rest of what I'm going to say won't make any sense.

WBH is a corporation with a board of directors and executive officers with real interests and assets to protect. There are those that seek to harm WBH and for the low low price of $20, these folks used to be able to attend the meetings of the board and have a front row seat and a copy of our play book in matters of strategy. During meetings of the board, there are those matters that are not to be made public because they may be of a legal, legislative or strategic nature. Many times, there are certain strategies discussed by a board that are private to the board of directors, not to exclude the members but simply to protect the corporation. Allowing this info into the hands of those I have previously mentioned weakens WBH and puts us at risk but again, you have to be willing to accept that such people are out there trying to harm WBH in hopes of causing us to fail.

Secondly, the board of directors bears a fiduciary burden that the members do not. The board of directors has obligations that the members (especially those I have previously mentioned) do not. People bent on harming WBH have no obligation to tell the truth and are able to leave a directors meeting with info they can use to thwart WBH actions. They could make false or misleading or harmful statements to the public (as recently happened). They could contact the legislature as a WBH member and state WBH policy and stances in an effort to influence legislation and go to the web to (as just recently happened) to spread bogus information that would put WBH at risk which would of course cost money to correct and defend. This is nothing new and has already happened.

There are WBH members that have joined solely to gain access into the anti-crossbow strategy WBH discusses at directors meetings or to find ways to attack us from an anti-hunting standpoint. Having them sitting in on discussions of legal and legislative strategy simply by virtue of holding a WBH membership card exposes us. There is actually espionage within these sorts of organizations. I will openly admit that I hold membership in certain orgs that I dislike and disagree with for the sole reason of gaining insight and information into what these orgs are doing so as to better protect WBH. I will tell you that I am excluded from their board of directors meetings for just such a reason.

Since it is impossible to see into a person's heart and know if they are a patriot of the association or an enemy, it is in the best interest of the association to put policies in place to limit their ability to do harm. In doing so, it has the effect of preventing good members from attending. This is a reality. (it's always the few bad apples that spoil it for everybody).

Under the advice of an attorney, we have allowed a members forum at the beginning of all meetings of the board. After that, the meeting of directors are in closed session. Those that will not accept that there are people trying to harm WBH will no doubt be suspicious and assume some sort of conspiracy theory thinking this is was done to exclude the good members who have the best interest of WBH in mind. I can assure you that is not the case at all.
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by NSIan » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:13 pm

Rancid,

The false info is your perception.....we are all able to form our opinions and it seems for the most part, our (or at least mine) differs from yours, and that is a common theme among diehard, purists, who have no vested interest in hunting as a whole entity, in all its forms.

These days, hunting communities are uniting across North America, in an effort to promote the sport in general. I think, from spending several hours cruising the WBH site, you and your group may have missed the boat.
From the inside looking out, one could suggest 'bowhunters' are doing a good job........but from the outside looking in (as a hunter), I got the idea WBH was against all forms of hunting , except "bowhunting."
Hunting, in all its forms are under attack, and what saddens me is the bold, in your face stance that several groups take, to promote "their" form of hunting.
In the end, we all suffer, at the hands of our hunting buddies.....
WBH has the goal to protect the bowhunting community, no if's and's or but's.....but at what cost?................

Well this is 2010......

We all need to be uniting and fighting the PETA and others, to preserve what little hunting opportunities we have, instead of fighting amongst ourselves.....

Your barf the past several days have most likely pushed that "wedge" even deeper in the hunting community...
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by NSIan » Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:19 pm

Spin and twist as you see fit Rancid......

Most will see through your smoke and mirrors...............as it is obvious here on this crossbow forum.

Those who take the time to dig a bit deeper into the WBH will assume their stance as an anti hunting organization, other than "bowhunting."

Sadly, the WBH does not speak on behalf of the majority of bowhunters or hunters in general, yet only represents the small minority of those who decide to sign up.

And, as was suggested earlier, those small minority groups control the will of the people, although not necessarilry the "will of the hunters."

Interpret, inject, suppose, predict, assume the will of hunters based on a very small obsessed group will only lead to failure on a global scale....as a hunter I assumed you would have learned this valuable lesson, as I have, over the years.
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by NSIan » Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:56 pm

C'mon.....
You are kidding, right?

How many hunters in WI?

How many Bowhunters?

And, lastly, how many Bowhunters are members of WBH?

Do you really think the majority has had a chance to speak?
I think not!

Its a problem all over the US, and CANADA.......small groups try to control the will of majorities, until some group stands up and exposes them for what they really are.....self serving elitist frauds!

WBH is only concerned with Bowhunting in WI.......nothing more, nothing less.

IF WBH had its way, all forms of hunting would be outlawed, except of course for Bowhunting.......


Nevermind the crossbow issue.......thats small potoates compared to what WBH wants...
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by NSIan » Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:27 pm

A few more arrow hunters will not decimate your deer herd! If anything, the harvest stats will be shifted from one user group to another, but thats about it.....

The same argument has been thrown around, as has been the norm, taken out of the NABC play book, for years.....more crossbow hunters=more deer kills=less opportunities for everyone else......prove it!

The WI herd is in the 1.35 million mark.......statistically, 450,000 animals are harvested yearly, with no decline in herd size......no matter how you swing it, the WI herd is statistically safe. Only the greedy few will barter and suggest otherwise.

How many bowhunters in WI and how many are card carrying members of WBH?

Oh, and how many "hunters" in WI?
Last edited by NSIan on Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by TPM » Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:28 pm

Its a problem all over the US, and CANADA.......small groups try to control the will of majorities, until some group stands up and exposes them for what they really are.....self serving elitist frauds!
There's an old saying, "The world is run by those who show up". It's true... sad but rue....
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