Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

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NSIan
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by NSIan » Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:36 pm

Based on your ignorance of the plight of hunters all across North America, its safe to say WBH wants to eliminate all forms of hunting, except Bowhunting.....


Funny thing is, after careful review of the WBH website, even the defenition of bowhunting, according to WBH can or should be questioned.......We as hunters continully scratch our heads and wonder why our numbers dwindle annually....well look no further than the WBH!

Its no wonder, the WBH membership is as low as it is, based on the overall bowhunting community statistics....let alone the overall hunting stats.
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by TPM » Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:05 pm

Can anybody give an example of the good works of crossbowers in WI? How have they worked to protect the resource? What is their history? Who are their pioneers in WI? What studies have they helped fund? What are their views on deer population goals? EAB, CWD? What is their net contribution to the state?
I think common sense would tell you that if crossbow hunters have very limited opportunities in your State there will be few of them and their sheer lack of numbers will keep them from being a driving force in management and conservation issues. Their "pioneers" are those who are currently pushing for increased opportunities and their history is beginning now. Everything else will follow. Sounds a lot like the early bowhunting proponents doesn't it? :wink:
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by NSIan » Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:26 pm

Rancid,


Don't take my comments as a "push from Nova Scotia" as gospel. Again, your ability to spin and twist is remarkable......I merely live in this wonderful province and speak for myself only.

And as such, I will say, I am alot like other Bowhunters.......even in WI:

I totally DISagree with your (WBH) hardline stance against every other form of hunting....I think your lack of members speaks volumes...

But then agaian, it ain't the number of members thats counts....its the members that show up.....
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by TPM » Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:46 pm

The tiny minority than wants this it is alienating those that they should be trying to work
If they're such a tiny minority then why are you guys getting your underwear in a knot about including them? :? Logic would dictate that a tiny minority would only have a tiny impact, good or bad, on your current deer management.
Such a tiny minority inciting such a huge backlash.... Hmmmm....
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by NSIan » Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:19 pm

Just so we know the numbers,
Maybe you can fill us in on the lack of bowhunter participation in your WBH.

You suggest 240,000 bowhunters ........why such low participation?
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Raymond » Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:37 pm

Rancid is so full off it.

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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by TPM » Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:26 am

It varies from year to year, It's around 240,000 and WBH has about 7,000. A recent survey of hunters in WI shows that about 12% of them belong to any org. Most do not belong to anything.
That seems to be the case all over. It's sad how most hunters want want their rights defended and conservation programs run but most don't belong to or support any organizations who do these things. Though I may not always agree with everything these groups do I am a long term member of OFAH and Delta Waterfowl and if I lived in WI I'd probably join WBH. :shock: Why? Because I, like many crossbow shooters, actively enjoy shooting vertical bows also. I think you'd be quite surprised at the number of current bowhunters who would add crossbows to their arsenals if they were included in your regular bow season. I've shot vertical bows since I was 8 years old (that was a looong time ago) but I "came out of the closet", so to speak, about three years ago when I discovered that crossbow shooting was fun and the crossbow community is probably the friendliest hunting community I've been a part of. I think the fact that this thread has gone on for six pages and remained relatively civil is a testament that. It's not about who "created" bow season or an elitist attitude of those trying to protect the purity of "their" season, it's about the freedom of choice. I don't by into the "it will decimate the deer population" argument because time and time again this has proven to be wrong. It's simply and old school attitude that vertical bowhunters "own" the archery season and thankfully that is dying out over time.
Another hurdle is that most archery clubs will not allow crossbow shooters on their ranges (indoor or out)
Another sad state of affairs....
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by awshucks » Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:03 am

Wow, 7 pages! Rancid, you forgot to thank the WWI vets for those new bow licenses Mr. Case got being printed in English vs German, ditto the WWII vets and Japanese, lol.

Weren't his efforts going on about the time of Fred Bear's? Didn't Fred promote archery hunting as "Two Season" hunters?

Your decimate the herd comments are a little specious, as you must recall from the MI debates, when 'Riva' and 'Munsterlndr' handed you your lunch, their DNR determined full inc would pose no threat to the herd. I can spend some time cutting and pasting if you need me to.....

When Wi and MD included provisions for seniors, their per cents of returned hunters went up in the first 2 or 3 yrs between 150% and 400%, can't recall offhand which state was higher, but you get the point, no pun intended.

It's unfortunate that WBH considers lowering that age to 55 more of the camel nose under the tent. That's right, I forgot, they can pull them back w/ their teeth, right?

You seem to have glossed over your "superior" weapon strategy, why? Could it be your present audience is too apt to see that for the hokum it is? Advice from lobbyist?

One other teeny tiny thing. Prior to commenting again on the state/providence of a poster's residency, you might want to bear in mind this forum is based in Canada. :mrgreen:
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by awshucks » Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:21 am

As far as strategy goes,
Once xbows go full inc in Wi, you can always try your hand at raising mushrooms. You have an abundant supply of fertilizer and appear comfortable working in the dark. :mrgreen:
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Limbs and Sticks » Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:41 am

awshucks wrote:
As far as strategy goes,
Once xbows go full inc in Wi, you can always try your hand at raising mushrooms. You have an abundant supply of fertilizer and appear comfortable working in the dark. :mrgreen:


Now that's funny, maybe his BS could be good for something :)

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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by TPM » Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:37 pm

Lots of passion about a WI thread but little if any substance from anybody from WI.
The passion in this thread is not about WI. It's about the unfair treatment crossbow hunters still face in certain States (and Provinces). It just so happens this one focuses on the actions of your organization and it's seemingly delusional view that owns the archery season. The crossbow crowd is only asking for inclusion not domination. And your organization is making them out to be the bad guys. :? :roll:
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Woody Williams » Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:29 pm

awshucks wrote:........
Your decimate the herd comments are a little specious, as you must recall from the MI debates, when 'Riva' and 'Munsterlndr' handed you your lunch, their DNR determined full inc would pose no threat to the herd. I can spend some time cutting and pasting if you need me to.....
LOL... No, they did hand him his lunch . They took it away from him and ate it in front of him while he boo hooed. :lol:

That's why when I saw his post here I said - Oh, no. Not that same old Keeerrraaappp again. No thanks.

Fortunately for the folks in Michigan their DNR did a lot of ground work and found out that the crossbow is a fine archery hunting tool that has no negative impact on the herd, nor anyone that is presently hunting. ALL positive data.

RC thinks that the WI kangeroo court voting is great ...as long as the WBH can muster up enough people to show up at these meetings to get their own selfish way.

Lord help them if the gun hunters decide that they want a piece of that early archery season pie and have more show up at the meetings than the WBH can muster.

Of course the WBH is against the lowering of the 65 age limit. They were against the 65 age limit to begin with.

You would think that a REAL conservation group would ask "What is best for the hunting in Wisconsin" and NOT "What is best for our group of bowhunters and screw everyone and the WI DNR too.".

You would also think that they would be very interested in retaining the older bowhunters and would actually do some age related research into other states and THEN make a factual statement instead of "We dont want them to continue hunting. Too bad. ".
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by TPM » Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:19 pm

What's this nonsense about mustering up a majority? Your arguments are getting weaker every time you post. It's not a popularity contest. It's about allowing the use of a safe, effective and ethical piece of equipment for the harvesting of an animal. That is the core for the measurement for "what is right for the state to do".
You seem to be trying to give us the impression that no one in your State wants to use crossbows in archery season. Well, enough people must want them or your State would not be considering their inclusion.
You would also think that they would be very interested in retaining the older bowhunters and would actually do some age related research into other states and THEN make a factual statement instead of "We dont want them to continue hunting. Too bad. ".
Woody, I doubt they did any kind of research even within their own organization. Groups like this typically assume that 7,000 members mean 7,000 crossbow haters without even formally asking the question among their own ranks. Too often in organizations both big and small the tail wags the dog.
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Doe Master » Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:30 pm

It seems sad when a few individuals with the loudest voice get some attention . The FACT is the hunting population is getting older and WANT to still hunt . Now if a person has hunted for a long time during the archery and wants to continue during that same time frame . But because of previous injuries in our youthful days we now find it alittle more difficult to draw a compound . Those loud individuals want to have you stop hunting because they can still draw their bows .
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by christo » Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:34 pm

I will qualify the start of this post as admitting that I do not live in WI nor do I own a crossbow.

I think it is hypocritical for ANY sporting group to try to limit any safe, effective, ethical weapon from being used. The way the hunting numbers are drying up, we should be looking for all opportunities to expose our youth to hunting, be that rifle, bow, or crossbow.

The WBH should be ashamed to call themselves a hunting organization if they are actively trying to restrict the use of crossbows for 'able bodied' people. They are so gracious to allow/vote for disabled and seniors to use crossbows in 'their' season.

Let there be no doubt. This isn't about crossbows. This is about protecting whats theirs. I bet they'd be thrilled to allow crossbows in WI if they are only allowed in general rifle season, so long as they don't touch their bow season. Actually, I take that back... because letting crossbows in general rifle is like opening the door that little crack. Once the door is open, its terribly hard to get shut in these cases. At that point its all but a forgone conclusion that it would only be a matter of time until crossbows edged their way into their archery season.

This stuff is silly. As a pure spectator, the WBH is hurting the sport of hunting in their state. Yes, the hardcore archery folks will cry foul if their season has to be shared with other weapons. Honestly, I think they should just rename the various seasons. The only real archers out there are using recurves. How many of them are there in the whole state? A thousand? Five thousand? Even at 20,000 they'd only be about 8% of all so-called archers. The compound bows used by the vast majority of archers are more advanced then the rifle I use.

If the WBH is so obsessed with the purity of archery being vertical bows only, lets take it back to REAL purity and have archery season be recurve only! Seasons should be-
Primitive- recurve and flintlock only (getting the longest seasons)
Advanced- compound bow, crossbow, percussion/in-line black powder (getting the rut with primitive users)
General- Rifles and all (end of rut/post-rut)

All that said, if the WBH is truly a hunting organization, they should be helping those wish to use crossbows.

To all you crossbow users in WI, its time to organize and get your voice heard. Get to those meetings and make sure they know that there are crossbow owners out there and you should have a right to use it safe, effectively and ethically to hunt just like any other weapon out there.

Rancid, I know you are toeing the company (corporate) line. Good for you being loyal. But in this instance, the WBH is just wrong. It'd be nice for you to admit that this is less about people using crossbows, and more about archers afraid of 'string-rifle' users sneaking in on 'their' season. This is about giving that inch today and giving up the yard in a couple more years. I think your grand founder would probably be rolling over in his grave if he could hear what his organization is doing today.

Last time I checked, hunting was supposed this cool family generational pastime to show your children and grandchildren the beauty and bounty of nature. Crossbows have been a viable weapon in war and hunting for over a thousand years. Crossbows (especially excaliburs) are elegant and deadly weapons and should have a place for all to use them for hunting.

Sorry for the rambling nature of this. I apparently had a lot to say about an issue that doesn't even effect me! Good luck to you WI Xbow'ers.

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