Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

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Woody Williams
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Woody Williams » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:31 pm

rancid crabtree wrote:The County by County results are in on the Conservation congress Question that asked if the crossbow age should be lowered from 65 to 55 years of age. Here is the breakdown.

(5) Counties tied

(3) Counties decided by a 1 vote margin

(6) Counties decided by a 2 vote margin

(17) Counties decided by 3 to 5 vote margins

(15) Counties vote NO by 6 or more votes

That's (46) counties that either voted No, tied or were very close either way

(26) vote Yes by 6 or more votes

I'm not sure how the Conservation Congress makes the call on this one since the goal was to gauge public support for the idea. The total number of votes was split statewide 53% Yes to 47% NO making it pretty tight. The congress vote was to gauge public support for the idea of lowering the age to 55. Some want it, some don't and many are split.

..
WOW! What spin. You need to go work for Obama. This is not a Presidential election and there is no Electoral College.

Face it - you guys lost.

Now pay some lobbiest to grease the skids for a polician. Pretty slimy stuff..
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Woody Williams
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Woody Williams » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:42 pm

Of course the DNRs need money to run on. Increased license sales and the resulting P & R funds could be a win fall for them.

Of course it is not just money for the DNR that would be generated, but also money for the mom and pop archery shops that seem to be going under with increasing regularity.Factor in all the related hunting items, motels , food, gasoline, etc that these new hunters would be spending and it can help Wisconsin's economy. I would think a self professed "Fiscal conservative" could figure that all out.

From the Georgia DNR –

“According to data provided by the 4 largest manufacturers of crossbows, a total of 14,073 units were sold in Georgia prior to the first season for crossbows being legal weapon. According to our HOW survey, there were an estimated 17,322 hunters who hunted with a crossbow. Further, according to license unit data, approximately 3,000 hunters held crossbow permits. These hunters would already own crossbows. Subtracting the 3,000 from 17,322 leaves 14,322. Considering the relatively crude methods, this is uncanningly close to the number units indicated as sold in Georgia.

Using the average price of $479 (WW - That is a very low ball figure) , as provided by the manufacturers, per crossbow without including peripherals such arrows, scopes, etc. the minimum retail sales from the new opportunity is $6,740,967. These are one year’s sales. These sales would have generated $471,867 in sales tax revenues for the state of Georgia.”

I don’t guess the archery pro shops would want any of that $6,740,967 and Wisconsin wouldn’t want that sales tax revenues.

Now, you tell us what is wrong with money being spent in the state in support of hunting?

Also tell us how a bunch of 55+ hunters are going to ruin the deer resource up there.
Woody Williams

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Pinpoint
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Pinpoint » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:01 am

IF there aren't going to be many more hunters, then where is the fear that crossbows will decimate the deer herd in WI? :?:

I thought that license fees were used in game management, therefore wouldn't more license sales overall be a good thing? Maybe attention in WI should turn more towards game management than the type of weapon chosen. A lower amount of antlerless tags has been a proven way to help the recovery of deer herds in Ontario. Just because you buy a tag, doesn't mean you will be successful.

I don't see how more money for resource management can be a bad thing! :?
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agingcrossbower
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by agingcrossbower » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:35 am

Pinpoint wrote:IF there aren't going to be many more hunters, then where is the fear that crossbows will decimate the deer herd in WI? :?:

I thought that license fees were used in game management, therefore wouldn't more license sales overall be a good thing? Maybe attention in WI should turn more towards game management than the type of weapon chosen. A lower amount of antlerless tags has been a proven way to help the recovery of deer herds in Ontario. Just because you buy a tag, doesn't mean you will be successful.

I don't see how more money for resource management can be a bad thing! :?
Yes! If the DNR could realize the low deer count and cut down on the doe tags, I feel a weapon choice would'nt be an issue. Its not the weapon were carrying, its the mismanagement of the herd. Last year we had in unit 64 farmers that organize and shut down large amounts of land to hunting because they could see the herd was way down. When the DNR saw that they co;uld'nt control the land well lets just say it got their attention.

Woody Williams
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Woody Williams » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:15 am

bstout wrote:
rancid crabtree wrote:bstout, you must have missed my question on the prior page so I post again.Have you changed your mind? How much/many are we talking here?
Rancid, I'll say it again, your twist & spin antics will not work here.

This is from another site. It may help you in your quest to change the future.


Common fallacies of logic and rhetoric

* Ad hominem - attacking the arguer and not the argument.
* Argument from "authority".
* Argument from adverse consequences (putting pressure on the decision maker by pointing out dire consequences of an "unfavourable" decision).
* Appeal to ignorance (absence of evidence is not evidence of absence).
* Special pleading (typically referring to god's will).
* Begging the question (assuming an answer in the way the question is phrased).
* Observational selection (counting the hits and forgetting the misses).
* Statistics of small numbers (such as drawing conclusions from inadequate sample sizes).
* Misunderstanding the nature of statistics (President Eisenhower expressing astonishment and alarm on discovering that fully half of all Americans have below average intelligence!)
* Inconsistency (e.g. military expenditures based on worst case scenarios but scientific projections on environmental dangers thriftily ignored because they are not "proved").
* Non sequitur - "it does not follow" - the logic falls down.
* Post hoc, ergo propter hoc - "it happened after so it was caused by" - confusion of cause and effect.
* Meaningless question ("what happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object?).
* Excluded middle - considering only the two extremes in a range of possibilities (making the "other side" look worse than it really is).
* Short-term v. long-term - a subset of excluded middle ("why pursue fundamental science when we have so huge a budget deficit?").
* Slippery slope - a subset of excluded middle - unwarranted extrapolation of the effects (give an inch and they will take a mile).
* Confusion of correlation and causation.
* Straw man - caricaturing (or stereotyping) a position to make it easier to attack..
* Suppressed evidence or half-truths.
* Weasel words - for example, use of euphemisms for war such as "police action" to get around limitations on Presidential powers. "An important art of politicians is to find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the public"

Any of it look familiar?
You missed one...

Image
Woody Williams

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Horizontal Hunter
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Horizontal Hunter » Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:04 am

On Page 2 of this thread you posted the following:
rancid crabtree] That will be based on the voice of the public that get a chance to vote each year on such matters. As I have said, WBH does not decide for the hunters of the state. The average hunters have told the state that they do not want crossbows in the archery deer season. If they ever change their minds, that will be the correct direction for the state to take.[/quote] This you posted on Page three: [quote= wrote: If it changes in WI, it will be because the majority of citizens that cast a vote will have decided that is the correct course of action to take. If that day comes, it will be the will of the majority making the correct thing to do. Who could argue with that?
rancid crabtree wrote:From last night's statewide Conservation Congress hearings.

Question 86: Lower Crossbow Eligibility from 65 to Age 55:

In favor: 2,014 (53.3%)

Opposed: 1,767 (46.7%)

It now goes to the CC board to decide what to do with it and whether or not they will advance the idea to the Natural Resources Board and then the NRB will have to decide if they want to recommend it to the legislature to see if they can find a legislator to draft a bill on a concept that is about split. This legislative session ends in 9 days so it will have to wait one way or the other until next year (it's an election year)
This is why orgs need a good lobbyist. The next 9 months will be interesting.

The people have spoken and you can't even be a good loser and accept what the people want. Last time I checked 53.3% to 46.7% wasn't "about split." Now you and the WB(whatever) want to fight it the rest of the way; regardless of what the people want.

Your own words have proven you to be a hypocrite. You should run for election in 2012. The bottom line is always the same. The WB(whatever) doesn't want other hunters in "their woods" hunting "their deer."

Bob
Vegetarian: vejiˈte(ə)rēən/noun: old Indian word for lousy hunter.
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Woody Williams
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Woody Williams » Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:53 pm

Guys and Gals,'

It will be by hook or crook to keep anyone from using a crossbow,

Yes, RC is a hypocrit.. did we expect any less..
Woody Williams

We have met the enemy and he is us - Pogo Possum

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hetichunter
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by hetichunter » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:00 am

this RC guy should move to Illinois and run for governor.........

he has all the traits needed to be successful here..............
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awshucks
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by awshucks » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:57 am

This is WBH plan "B". Plan "A" was to have the vote go their way. Too many 3%ers stayed home, lol. The other possibility is WBH is much like NJBH and are "virtually" split down the middle on xbow inc issues.....
"Eze 18:21"

Woody Williams
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Woody Williams » Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:23 pm

Correct me if I am wrong but weren't they a originally against the 65 and over crowd too? Something about "getting the foot in the door."
Woody Williams

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Woody Williams
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Woody Williams » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:02 pm

rancid crabtree wrote:As I stated in a prior post. This hearing was only an advisory question to gauge public support which appears to be split.

This is why orgs hire good lobbyists.
NO-O-O.. A "split" is a 50 - 50 tie

You mean shysters bribe the politicians when the vote doesnt go your way? Pretty poor. What happened to "let the people decide"?
Woody Williams

We have met the enemy and he is us - Pogo Possum

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Woody Williams
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Woody Williams » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:40 pm

rancid crabtree wrote:
What do you mean split? I posted the advisory question results and it passed pure and simple next year it will be on the ballot for a vote.
Uuuuuuuumm. It was on the ballot for a vote this year. Didn't you attend? I will spell it out again.
This hearing had an advisory question to gauge public support to lower the age to 55 which appears to be split. This is not a vote of the NRB or a vote of the legislature. Its an advisory question in the CC only. It now goes to the CC board to decide what to do with it and whether or not they will advance the idea to the Natural Resources Board. They have the option to simply let the question die or they can tell the NRB they support the measure and then the NRB will have to decide if they want to recommend it to the legislature to see if they can find a legislator to draft a bill on a concept that is about split. This legislative session ends in 5 days so it will have to wait one way or the other until next year (it's an election year) I thought you are from WI?

The total number of votes statewide 53% Yes to 47% no .

That was about the same total that elected Obama. He declared it a mandate. Maybe we need to revisit that and get the SCOTUS involved and lobby them with some paid shysters....

What happened to "let the people decide"? Are you crawfishing on that statement now?
Woody Williams

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Pinpoint
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Pinpoint » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:16 am

Rancid,

Why is it every time someone from outside WI posts on this thread you question their position in their home range, or why they care about issues in WI??? In case you missed it this forum is on the INTERNET which is WORLDWIDE.

Maybe you should start your own forum in WI where you and the rest of the WBH can sit around and talk about how evil crossbows are. :wink: Don't forget to only allow users from WI so as not to get any outside influence! :lol:

By the way 62% to 38% sounds about split to me!! :lol:
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Riflemanz » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:44 am

Maybe you should start your own forum in WI where you and the rest of the WBH can sit around and talk about how evil crossbows are. Don't forget to only allow users from WI so as not to get any outside influence!
It's called http://www.bowsite.com wisconsin forum
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Re: Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

Post by Limbs and Sticks » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:07 am

Hey rancid, I know how long you would have lasted in VA. T he only reason you've lasted as long as you and the rest of the rest of WEASEL'S around you is because you got know nothing people holding the right positions in WI. in your pocket$$$$$$$, you know it's the truth but lie about it like everything else,

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