WBH survey results

[NSIan]

Do me a favour Ron, stop editing your posts, to suit your needs.

[Pinpoint]

Can you tell me how many pounds an archer has to pull when cocking a 175 lb crossbow?

With a crank?

With a cocking device?

By having his son cock it once for him at the begining of the season?

When? hours in advance?

You wouldn't be avoiding a perfectly honest question would you Rancid? I've noticed you don't like it when your questions are avoided.

You also danced around another question earlier, Do you think a crossbow is an acceptable weapon for able bodied hunters??

[NSIan]

Ron, you didn't answer my question.

So, I will ask it again.

Can you tell me how many pounds an archer has to pull when cocking a 175 lb crossbow?

The question is pretty simple, but since you could not answer it the first go-round
Lets assume the archer just uses the muscles the good lord gave him......(...I think thats the phrase you used....)

[Pinpoint]

Rancid,

Sounds to me like you don't like answering questions that don't fit you're argument. Even with a rope cocking aid an archer needs to pull half of the said 175lb pull.

Do you know what 1/2 of 175 is??

[NSIan]

....And while the archer draws back his crossbow, is there any "let-off"....you know, like a compound archer has the luxury of utilizing?

[NSIan]

And the let-off on your fathers Horton is?

I do know that with a bow, an archer in WI spots approaching game and has to time the draw so as not to give away his position.
Every hunter has to time his or her movement so as not to give away their position.

The first inch of draw is quite easy and every proceeding inch of draw gets increasingly harder and is done with the prey in close quarters. Each inch of draw and the resulting poundage increase and movement requires nearly all muscles of the body so that the draw is smooth enough not to be noticed by the approaching prey.
Not really. With todays 80% let-off bows, coming to full draw only takes a mere second or two. Holding 15 lbs at full draw is not very hard.

During the cycle, the muscles, tendons and bones of the arms and hands strain under the maximum weight the archer can draw and hold while the prey draws even closer. His draw is limited by his ability.

His draw is limited by the bows cams and wheels, and the let-off. Its actually pretty simple to draw back a modern compound bow.

The same can be said for anyone who utilizes a crossbow to hunt.

As the final moment arrives, the archer must complete the draw cycle and peak draw weight of the bow with his own power and the resulting movement will often times alert the prey to his presence resulting in a lost shot opportunity meaning the archer must then use the muscles, tendons and bones of the hands, arms, back, neck, etc. to let down the draw weight.

Peak draw weight? 20lbs? Wow!
If a crossbower misses his first shot, he can pretty much forget about a second, if up in a tree. And if on the ground, factor in haveing to draw back a crossbow at 175 lbs in a little ground blind.....not an easy feat! Cut it in half with a cocking aid, but that eats up a good minute or two.


In cold climates (such as WI) the cold can exacerbate the problems and further limit the archer. Either way, the potential is great for lost shot opportunities due to the movement and effort required to make a shot but that is the challenge and appeal of Bowhunting. That is why we take the challenge.

The same can be said for anyone who utilizes a crossbow to hunt.

Should the prey be only slightly alarmed and return, the archer (now weakened by the first attempt) must go through the draw cycle again in hopes the resulting strain and movement does not to scare away his prey.

The same can be said for anyone who chooses to hunt with a crossbow.

He then must hold the weight of the draw for as long as is required to make the shot. In many cases, its quite long and the resulting strain and effort to hold the bow at full draw causes one to shake with fatigue and the heart pounding caused by having your prey so close. In order to master this the archer must constantly practice, not only the hold and aim but the draw so as to build and condition the body to draw back the weight of the bow smoothly in the presence of his prey. This may mean that the archer must condition a great deal or reduce his draw weight to achieve the best results.



Oh, and jsut so you know, its not a wise practice to leave a cocked crossbow unattended.
Someone could get severly injured.
Careless misuse of any hunting instrument is the leading cause of hunter injuries all across North America.

[NSIan]

...And how many crossbow hunters in Wisconsin use the TAC 15??

Since this is the Excalibur forum, lets use any excalibur as an example. Its a modern, mainstream crossbow that is widely used to harvest game all over the world. the TAC 15 is an extreme crossbow, that was designed for shock value.....nothing more.
Good luck to any one who has the cash to purchase the TAC 15 and all the necessary add-ons to go out for a day hunting!

[NSIan]

Actually Ron, you mentioned my avatar. As far as I can tell, its NOT a TAC 15.

If I knew my little avatar was going to be an issue with you, I would have changed it.

[NSIan]

I hunt with a recuvre crossbow and I own a compound crossbow for target shooting, along with two other recurve target crossbows. One is a 40lb and the other is a 90 lb. My compound crossbow has a limited let-off of about 50%. I am still drawing well over 75 lbs. Its not adjustable, unlike my Compound Bow, which I can tweak and tune to suit my needs.

[NSIan]

The tool does not a hunter make.......

10% tool.

90% hunter skill.

[awshucks]

I am unaware of a data set on TAC 10 or TAC 15 ownership in WI. It may be more or less than you or I think.


Which model excalibur crossbow is that in your avatar?

Lol, the ones you aren't aware of. Available from 01-04 and still highly thought of today. Do your own scut work.

Wassup w/ this, Rancid?

Last edited by rancid crabtree on Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:42 am, edited 6 times in total.

[awshucks]

I want to make sure I am clear and why I type is properly captured. I hope you understand.

I'd edit this one to replace why w/ what. I fully understand you, have for years. Here's the no-name Excal you didn't know existed.

[NSIan]

Ron likes to edit his posts to suit his needs and take out stuff that he gets busted on......

We can completely agree on that. hunter skill and ability is where it's at. Not having to master the ability or hone the skill to draw a bow in close quarters to prey and not having to hold the draw weight or let down and repeat the cycle surely makes things easier on WI residents allowed to use a crossbow.

It takes alot of skill and practice to master a crossbow. Allowing a first time user into the woods, regardless of age or any limitations to participate in a hunt without any practice is just wrong. I do hope you realize its unethical to attempt a harvest without first practicing and getting comfortable with any tool, let alone a crossbow. If the WBH promotes using a crossbow without practicing first, then you are doing a dis-service to the entire hunting community in Wisconsin.

Not needing to have the skill to do those things is certainly an advantage and why the elderly and handicapped are allowed to use a superior weapon requiring less skill and ability.

Thankfully, in WI, ALL hunters have the ability to shoulder a weapon, place their cheek against the stock, lower their eye into a scope and have to squeeze only their index finger to fire their weapon.

Ohh, if it were that easy!!

Even I enjoy this style of advanced and superior weapon except mine fires a bullet. Having 34 years of hunting with such a weapon and a bow makes me appreciate and understand the differences between a shoulder fired weapon and a bow.

One fires an arrow and the other fires a bullet. One kills by Shock and Awe and the other kills by hemmorage and blood loss.....can you see the difference?
Ohh, how does a vertical bow kill?? If evan you cannot distinguish the difference between arrow kills and bullet kills, then you have a much bigger problem than I first thought.

I am keenly aware of the amount of motion and effort required to use both styles of weapons.

[NSIan]

I too hunt with bullets and arrows. I understand the dynamics and limitations of both. I usually refrain from trying to compare the two.

The hemorrhage does not happen unless I can get away with making the shot. Its the same for both my high let-off PSE compound, and my Excalibur Phoenix. My movement is directly related to the game I am persuing. I have had many wary deer wander through my shooting lanes over the years. Many have lived to see another day, mainly because my movement was restricted. It has happened in the past with my rifle, my compound and most recently, my crossbow. Each tool represents a unique challenge. Hunting with a crossbow certainly has not made my efforts any easier! I merely have a another choice....another tool in which I can use to attempt to harvest a whitetail!

[NSIan]

One tag = 1 deer.
Doesn't matter what a fella uses to get the job done. I know its a hard concept to grasp, but its reality.