how accurate does you bow have to be?

[wabi]

Loooooooooooong story, but I've had enough accuracy problems in the past few years to make me think about giving up hunting with a crossbow. (Note - I said think, not actually give up! )

It started when I bought my Phoenix a few years ago. Don't remember the year it was, but it was when the Phoenix first hit the market. Excalibur didn't offer an illuminated reticule scope at the time, so I bought a TenPoint scope. All was fine at first, I could shoot 1/2" groups at 25 yards from the bench regularly, and sub-1" groups consistently.
Then that scope failed! Accuracy was a distant memory with that scope and TenPoint replaced it when I complained. After 3 TenPoint scopes with various problems I switched to the VariZone.
All was fine at first (again, ), then the nightmare of shifting POI reared it's ugly head again. I thought I'd solved the problem when I found the objective lens was loose and tightened the lock ring, but I got the Phoenix out to shoot last week and was shocked when I launched the first arrow.
I put on a new Boo string and headed for the range with my Phoenix which has been unstrung and in safe storage since last December (when I got the flu that whipped me for a couple of months).

Set up on the bench, cocked & loaded an arrow, centered the crosshairs on the bullseye, squeezed off the shot, and the arrow hit 4" low right!

What the ****??????
Could a new string throw me off that far? Never had a string change affect accuracy that bad before! Shot a couple more arrows to confirm the sights were off, then adjusted the scope. I was getting barely sub-2" groups at 25 yards, with consistent "fliers" that ruined groups.

Came home, sorted through my scope inventory, and selected a Hawke air rifle scope to stick on the Phoenix for a test of accuracy.
Went back to the range, made 6 - 1/2" circles on the target with a magic marker, sighted in the scope, then numbered 6 arrows (to eliminate/identify any arrow problems) and started shooting at the small circles. Shot 12 times and all but one arrow was either in or touching the 1/2" circle! (OK - I messed up one shot, but it was still within an inch of the circle. )

Came home, called Danny Miller and described the problem to him.
I must say Danny is very understanding and cooperative! The VariZone is on it's way back to him, and he will be shipping me a new Leupold at a very reasonable price. Danny also had me check a few thing on the Phoenix to rule out possible problems with the bow itself. (But in my mind the new scope & tight groups pretty well identified the problem as the old scope being the problem.)

Sorry, Excalibur (and TenPoint), but I'm fed up with scopes that are made with competitive price as the key ingredient of design and quality.
I know it's a tough market, and most people are going to be happy with 2" groups at 25 yards, but I wish someone (be it a crossbow company or a scope company) would offer a "high end" option in crossbow scopes!!!!!!!!!

The Leupold is a rifle scope and parallax is not set for the close range of a crossbow, but I figure if it's (parallax) bad at 25 yards I can send the scope to Leupold and have it adjusted. (or even DIY it if necessary)

All this got me thinking (thus the poll), what do most hunters require from a scope? Do they figure an occasional "flier" is OK as long as it's within "minute of deer", or do they demand the best accuracy the crossbow can provide?

With a crossbow as accurate as an Excalibur, why not offer a "target grade" sighting option?????????????????????
To me, it's like investing hundreds (or thousands) in a custom target rifle, then sticking a "WalMart" discount rack imported scope on it - it just doesn't make sense!

[Boo]

If all goes well, which it does for most (except for some unlucky individuals ), the Excalibur scopes are a great way to go if you want a good scope for the money with the best warranty out there and the convenience of the best reticle designs used in a crossbow scope. But my demands are higher than what the Excalibur scopes will give you. My choice is higher end rifle scopes. There is no parallax issues and there are no recoil issues that you hear parroted around the forums. To my knowledge all crossbow scopes are cheap rifle scopes that have their parallax adjusted to a shorter range and a different reticle design. From what I've seen shooting at targets the difference in the parallax is insignificant. Some scopes like he Leupold will even give you the various ranging ability that crossbow scopes give you by using the crosshairs and the adjacent ends of the vertical reticles. Snapperdan figured that out with the Leupold the easy way.
I'm with you Mike, I'd go for a high end crossbow specific scope and am like many, willing to pay for it.

[Pydpiper]

I am an accuracy junkie, I would not be able to sleep at night knowing my bow was doing 2" at 25 yards, I expect better than 2"at 50 yards. I shoot every day and have developed certain expectations as to where my arrow is going to go.
I am also one of the lucky ones who has a flawless Lumizone, it has never let me down or required even a slight adjustment. It isn't my first though, the one I bought with my bow had drifting issues. So far my wife's Lumizone is proving to be just as reliable, although it doesn't get shot nearly as much.
I agree that a company would do well to provide a high end scope to those of us who want one, but it certainly isn't a necessity for me. I can see fine through my scope in all hunting conditions that require a crossbow. I have been spoiled with a scope that seems to be made for my extreme conditions, and I will always appreciate my Lumizone provided I don't use my 6500 first. Some of my hunting has gone from "low light" to "no light", putting a scope on a live target at 2am involves a little more than hope.
When I had my problems with my first Varizone I spent a lot of time talking to Danny, learned a whole lot about scopes during those calls.
One trick I figured out for the cheap scopes that seems to be working very well goes as follows:
The second I take it out of the box I run the windage and elevation turrets from one extreme to another, counting clicks as I go and then bringing them back to center by dividing the amount of clicks in two. Somewhere in my head I have decided that this helps free the springs of any chinese debris that was left behind in the manufacturing process or free moving parts from rough machining. Also, while making adjustments I tap the scope with my rope cocker handle using the same theory I just mentioned. Finally, when making adjustments, I like to exceed the amount of clicks the scope requires and backing back to the one I needed. For example, if the scope needs 2 clicks to bring the horizontal in to check, I click 3 then back one. Using this primitive technique I have had terrific success with the inexpensive scopes.

[Pydpiper]

I guess I'm in the minority that is VERY happy putting my arrows into a three inch group at 25 yards. I'm not talking off the bench but off-hand. As far as 50 yrds goes, bless you Pyper. I will never be able to "consistantly" do a five inch group at that range off-hand OR off the bench.

My bench and bow vice were made around my Excalibur, it allows repeatability with little room for me to make a human error. I didn't build it to see how accurate my bow was, I did it so I can get a better grip on my arrows that I make, just another way to learn as I go I guess. The bow is easy to make consistent, it is usually the arrows that keep a guy from being accurate, at least that is what I have learned.
I am not out in my yard shooting sub 2" groups all day long, for me to be consistent I need to know "exact" distances, something that I am not very good at past 30 yards. However, with a rangefinder and something to rest on I can (my bow can..) hit a golf ball anywhere inside of the 50 yards I practice in. Consistant arrows is the key once you get past the scope issues.

[secret]

0-30yrds...split shafts,,30-50 yrds.... max 1" groups {thats if its windy and shooting light shafts]more like arrows touching...in center.

[Normous]

I have already sent Leupold two lengthy emails suggesting that they consider introducing a Crossbow scope since that market is expanding. They responded to my last email that they are considering a crossbow scope yet they cannot release any further details. That was 14 months ago.

[TYE]

When I had my phoenix and varizone I would practice shooting bottle caps at 50 yards. I could knock the centers out from a rest. Go out the next day do the same thing. So I never had a problem with mine? Sometimes I would have to adjust it a tiny bit come winter since the cold weather would change my POI a little.

But since I've got a compound now, I don't have to worry much at all. I get awesome groups out to 50 at least. Sometimes shoot 60 and 70 for fun.

I'm never happy though until I can stack arrows right against eachother. I'm kind of a perfectionist when it comes to archery.

[crazyfarmer]

Im a tac on tac guy, but that goes out the window when shooting a quick shot at a deer walking through the woods. Sure I want 1-2inch groups at 25 yards but I can spend all day long splitting shafts which isnt any fun.

Ive gotten so I just walk around my yard at different angles and no rest from 8-45 yards and if I get within the lung area every shot im happy. This is after I sight the bow in dead on with a rest all the way out to 40 yards atleast.

Anyone should have 1-2inch groups out at 20 yards as long as they are shooting the bow right from a rest

I selected the 6-9inch with no rest at a mature buck at a unknown range;)That will get the job done

[vixenmaster]

If my scope can consistanly keep my arrows in a 2" group or less i am very Happy. I also want no more than a 4" groups at 40 yds, & thats min of deer to me. When i get serious i use my gift scope 1.5x6 rifle Bushnell Elite. As its been said here a quality scope is worth every cent spent. My take on quality rifle scopes is if you are consistant on mounting & looking through yer scope the view will be same. So if'en yer in a shooting sitsuation put yer eyeball as you always practice & it will hit the same way. Cause if you cock yer head things don't line up right in scope view yer gonna not hit right

[sumner4991]

I want sub 1" groups because the Excaliburs are that accurate. So, if I'm not getting them . . .well, it's a man thing, I suppose.

I figure it this way. When you throw in human error, buck fever, wind, rain, sun, heat, cold, bad string, bad fletching, poor FOC, deer jump, no bathroom break before leaving the house, yardage misread, poor color choice on arrow wrap, no coffee, no lunch and all those other excuses we come up with when we miss the deer . . .you need the bow shooting as good as possible to offset these issues.

I'd had good luck with the Varizone and the Lumizone to this point. If there is an issue, then it's been within 2" and that could easily be me.

[dutchhunter]

i am in need of a scope for my exocet and have been looknig at the leupold shotgun scope as a good choiice .i will be looking at ohters as well most companys have a shotgun scope that has the reticals in the glass same as the xbow scope i like to see the arows almost hitting each other and i really like it when some oone that has not shot a bow before can hit a bull with my xcals DUTCH

[Limbs and Sticks]

I like putting holes into holes or clover leaves, I shoot one cross hair or one dot on everything I shoot, burris on most and a single pin tru-glow on my compound, distance hasn't meant any thing to me, just know the capabilities of yourself and what ever weapon your shooting. Just my thoughts [ you wouldn't put a $49.00 bushnell scope on a $2000.00 WEATHERBY would you?]

Wes

[xbowkidd]

I highly recommend checking out the Parker pinpoint scope if your looking for a deadly accurate high end scope specifically designed for crossbows. it comes in at the steep price of $299 usd, but in my opinion well worth it. you get a turret with 1 yard increments from 10 yards right out to 85 yards depending on the speed of your bow. you can read more for yourself here...

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1240136

http://www.wyverncreations.com/index.ph ... cts_id=347

[rt2bowhunter]

I want my groups at 25yds sub- 1". And with my broad heads. To be honest i want my groups inside a 1" at my max hunting range. Here is the way i look at it. Lets give a deer a 10" kill zone. Your shooting a 5" group the deer only has to move 5". And a good shot could turn bad at least that's my thinking. While hunting if i have a rest. I will take a 40yd shot if its free hand 25yds.
Here's a few groups i shot with a Ibex. The bulls eye is 2" and the rest was a 2x6 hand rail under the forearm. As you can see all shots were a dead deer.

[sumner4991]

xbowkidd . . .seems like too many steps, I would end up shooting over or under because I wouldn't want to take my sight off the deer to adjust for yardage while the deer was in my shooting lane. I'd be afraid I'd lose my chance at the best shot. I'm sure it would work well in certain set-ups, but, for me . . .I'd use it as a single crosshair scope and not get the full advantage of the technology for which I paid. There's probably a good system, but, it would take some getting used to . . .I'd forget to adjust the yardage and miss completely.

rt2bowhunter . . .good post, matches my testing with the Slick Tricks vs the Spitfires almost exactly.