There is no honor among thieves

[MarkMarine]

There is no honor among thieves

That is an adage which has been around as long as there was something worth stealing. Hunting, perhaps the most base instinct in human nature beyond the desire to copulate, seems non immune to the touch of thievery. Marriage is a holy union entered into in the presence of God and should be revered - but hunting is a holy communion WITH God, it should be venerable!

In Native America, to take another man's (or woman's gear) is to befoul the sacraments they use in the profession of their faith. To enter their Hunting Grounds alone, is to traipse upon Holy Ground. To invade their vantage (be it tree or ground blind) is to enter into the Sanctum Sanctorum - our Holy of Holies.

For it is there we meet the living spirit of Creator.

For it is there the sacrificial lamb walks unto the altar.

For it is there we are found worthy or unworthy to partake of their Offering.

It is there we are one with the Great One.

Perhaps I am preaching to the choir here - I hope so. Yet, if there is one soul here who has wandered in and read of some of my brothers and sisters set-ups and then taken it upon themselves to go and relieve them of same...then I want you to understand that what you do far exceeds common robbery, it is blasphemy.

In Native America, life is a Great Wheel...what goes around - comes around!

[Cyclonic]

Very Good. Very Good indeed. These are some of the truest words I have read in a long time.

[wheelie]

deleted. Maybe read it wrong

[Crispy]

Very true, nicely said. Thanks Mark.

[PA_DeerHunter]

Hunting is a sacrament, and superior to marriage?

Hate to burst your bubble, but the goal toward which this broken world is heading is the marriage of heaven and earth, where every tear will be wiped from our eyes.

Somehow I doubt that being "one with nature" through pursuit of prey is the heavenly vision....anymore than those who would say similar things about the game of golf. It smacks more of paganism than true oneness with God. But if you want to believe hunting deer, elk, moose, bear, etc., makes you one with the divine, have at it.

[saxman]

While spending 10 days in the hospital everything I had in the woods was stolen but 1 treestand,5 or 6 compleete set ups, most were groundblinds,each with fold out chairs,heaters and shooting tripods. I knew who the culprets were but couldn't prove a thing.
I understand the emotion behing being the victum.
They will get theirs.

[MarkMarine]

Hunting is a sacrament, and superior to marriage?

Hate to burst your bubble, but the goal toward which this broken world is heading is the marriage of heaven and earth, where every tear will be wiped from our eyes.

Somehow I doubt that being "one with nature" through pursuit of prey is the heavenly vision....anymore than those who would say similar things about the game of golf. It smacks more of paganism than true oneness with God. But if you want to believe hunting deer, elk, moose, bear, etc., makes you one with the divine, have at it.

It seems the message was somehow lost in translation. I am learning not to post my thoughts (be they poetic or otherwise) because lo & behold they are increasingly misinterpreted.

I do not recall saying deer hunting is superior to marriage; but I qualified the importance of it by citing Creator's involvement in both.

I do not remember saying that hunting prey is the literal embodiment of Heaven (or even a Path to Heaven). I do seem to remember stating it was a time of communion with Creator - a sharing of the spiritual beyond the physical embodiment of the animal or the act.

There are traditional topics of taboo are being too closely neared here...and I will not be drawn into neither philosophical nor religious debate. I did, however, cite repeatedly, "In Native America(n)..." as the foundation for my perspective. To be inferred to as "paganism" insults me...but I will let that pass.

Instead, allow me to share something with you, in parting (as I will not speak of this again):

Phillipians 4:8 Finally, bretheren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things honest. whatsoever things just, whatsoever things pure, whatsoever things lovely, whatsoever things of good report, if any virtue, and any praise, think on these things.
4:9 Those things which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

When I hunt, and anyone else with a soul, it is a time of reflection, meditation, and peace. I learned this from my Grandfather - Choctaw Wise Man, Walks Tall. I learned the crossbow does not bring me peace. The bolt nor broadhead either. In fact, I learned that harvesting the deer does not. It is the essence of being at one with creation - for by entering therein with reverence do I honor He whom wrought it all into being.

[rayman]

For me, hunting and fishing, amoung other outdoor endeavers, are times to get out and away from the everyday bull sht. A time to maybe clear my head and get back to a happy place mentally for a while. And yes, at times it does seem to be a spiritual thing. Other people do things like yoga and so forth. I'd rather go hunting than do yoga.

It seems the competition aspect takes away from the relaxation and/or spiritual aspect though. That's why I don't like to hunt with groups any more.

You have been dealing with a cranky boss, imposible to please client, or what ever daily life hands you all week looking forward to getting to the stand for some hunting time. Get up at 4:00 in the morning, drive 1.5 hours, walk 1/2 mile in the dark, and you can't find your stand. Some SoB fricking stole it. Or you find it and it's busted up so bad it's no good.

Been there done that and it sucks. Just gives you a rotten fealing for humanity.

I hope that all who have ever messed with another's stand, feeder, etc without just cause is unable to sleep for the same reason that I would not be able to. Most probably don't have a threat of moral fiber though.

[Doe Master]

Mark I think where you were trying to go with this post right . The finding of inner peace and what goes around comes around .
There is many places to find that inner peace . A beautiful tee shot , a long 3 pointer . For me a long shot . ( on paper )

[MarkMarine]

I wrote this due to the recent postings by Darrel (and others) who brought to light a problem with folks sneaking into their hunting spots and making off with their gear. I remembered Darrel's reluctance to be helped as he cited "The Native Way" and so I wrote this from a Native American viewpoint (given I am part Choctaw/Cherokee - but all Indian LOL) so that I could shed new light to the special significance those of NA Blood place upon the hunt.

I heard my woman say one time to someone who asked her about her Cherokee "religion" (my wife is a Rez born Cherokee) that she knew nothing of religion, but everything about life. To the NA in particular, hunting is not part of some religious rite, it is their life, it's in their Blood. All men, regardless of race, creed, ethnicity are born with the instinct to hunt. I had hoped to touch the spirit of all here with the importance of such...as it was once voiced that chances were someone here who knew the location of some of our esteemed membership may have taken the liberty to read of their gear and then taken it upon themselves to liberate the rightful owners of same.

I wished to convict their conscience and deter such a possibility.

[MADMAX2]

Mark I like the words of the natives and it is sooo true for the way they are so tied to mother earth and her creatures.

[Raymond]

Hey Mark,
Well spoken and I liked your posting. As being a Metis I totally agree with your posting and found no reason to be jumped on. Thank you for your special posting.
Raymond

[wheelie]

I am on the other side unfortunatly. We had/have 5 Indian tugs move in and desimate our sportfishing. They say the are not part of any tribe so the treaties that are signed have nothing to do with them.

Town totally lost all is tourists because of no fish anymore and thats all we had.

Food for own consumption was not ment tug boats with gill nets.

Call them my friends though because they sell me cheap smokes! LOL

Not everyone agrees, thats what make this country great. We don't get beat or jailed for our opinion...............................YET!

[Wildlife Control]

I get what you're saying Mark and I enjoy your poetic thoughts. Some could fall on a bed of nails and still "miss the point" but you can't prevent that. I recently lost a camera and a feeder to some low life POS that get's his high from stealing other peoples gear. Hunting is SO MUCH more to me than taking an animal and having it ruined by a thief takes away far more than just the gear that is lost.



Genesis 9:1-3 says: "Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall upon all of the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands. Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, now I give you everything."

[VixChix]

"Native" is such a interesting concept... I grew up out west with Cree friends. I have dear friends here who claim native heritage.

My own blood heritage is Danish/Norwegian - I could say Viking. But I have no claim on my native land, traditions or beliefs.

My parents both lost family, health, land, goods and their youth during WWII - they were starved, shot at, mistreated, bombed out, robbed. They could never go back to claim any restitution. Its just not the way things are done.

Here we often see what I would call abuse of the rights of the natives - like Wheelie said, there are those who take advantage of the hunting and fishing for commercial gain with no respect for managing game for future generations. It's a sad reality that a few bad apples can affect the whole bushel.

By-the-way, some archeological and genetic evidence supports that that the people we consider to be indigenous here in North America were in fact newcomers that took over from a previous indigenous people.

There is evidence that the origins of some of the earliest peoples of North America were of European heritage, not necessarily the traditionally assumed Asian-related heritage.

This all make no difference to me - except to say that I feel that there is no one "heritage" that has any exclusive claim on hunting or "the right way". We ALL share a heritage that comes from living much closer to the wild-ness that most of us do now. It was survival. Each cultural group has their traditions and with each generation the traditions evolve.

Personally I won't turning to my heritage's ancient beliefs and calling on Ullr to help with the hunt!

I'll spend my time in the woods enjoying the presence of my Creator God in a way that I often can't in the distractions of everyday life. It's not mystical.