nchunterkw wrote:I have a bunch of Horton bolts I am trying to use up. Tey have moon nocks and a cock vane. Maybe I should just dump them. I am going to be shooting today so I will look at the spring, and check out the rail. I have some arrows I've not shot so I should be able to use those to check for wear.
Do not dump the shafts.
Remove the nock and replace with flat nocks.
A simpler solution is to file or sand the moon off and create a flat spot.
Then you can rotate the arrow.
"Death leaves a heartache no one can heal. Love leaves a memory no one can steal"
Update after a long day of shooting.
Checked out the rail for obvious nicks - nothing
Checked the spring and it looked ok as well
marked the string R and L of the rail
Cocked the bow "righty" and "lefty" saw maybe a slight difference in where the marks ended up but it was hard to tell.
Picked 2 arrows with no marks on them to shoot. - These have moon nocks
Cocked the bow "righty", shot 1 arrow - saw the mark. It starts about 3/8 " to 1/4" from the back end of the arrow. More arrow than that extends behind the start of the rail.
Cocked the bow "lefty" - shot other arrow - saw the same mark.
Took the scope mount and retainign spring off and sanded the starting edge of the left rail a bit. Re-assembled - shot another arrow with flat nock- mark still there.
Repeated above - reassembled - mark still there but starts a bit further back on the arrow.
Accuracy is not a problem.
Did some more shooting - running an experiment checking penetration of different weight arrows into ballistics gel. Part of that included about 20 shots with an Al Easton 2219 arrow that had no marks to start with. Accuracy great - velocity very consistent - but at the end of the day it had the small mark on the left side as well. But because it was Al I could also see an even smaller mark on the right as well. Not as distinct but still there.
My overall conclusion is that it has to be something at the very start of the rail. It is virtually impossible to get to that without taking off the trigger mechanism and I don't want to do that. That and there seems to be a little left-ward pressure at the start of the stroke. My short term fix for the Quickfletches is to just trim the wrap at the back of the arrow. I'll try to post a pic tomorrow and maybe see what Excal says..
Keith
Stand by the roads and look, and ask for the ancient paths; where the good way is,
and walk in it and find rest for your souls. - Jer 6:16
I think i would swap my limbs around just to see..at least that would be out of the equation,,maybe you said and i missed it but what string are you using and is the serving factory?.
I just looked at some firebolts i have wraped with Nap twister Quickfletch..and sure nuff that same mark is on all 3 at the left side . i always have put the same cock down..soo i have the same issue.But i think its just the nature of things..I dont think ill worry much...one thing i noticed when i first put those Q Fletch type on is they feel like they drag in the rail..so i waxed em with some car wax and it slicked em up pretty good..I called NAP about the drag thing and told them i would be more happy if they addressed that issue..they listened to my thoughts and said that was somthing no one had an issue with but understood that the crossbow rail was a different thing than a vertical bow rest. I hope they change the coating in the future..never know.
Strum,
I just bought the crossbow this fall so everything is factory. It is the Excel factory string. I don't think the Q-fletch caused anything, except for me to notice what is going on. I think I cut through the top coating and exposed the glue underneath and that left the rust colored stripe down the rail. I cut the back end off of some Q-fletches I have on 2 other arrows. I hope to shoot them tomorrow to see if the brown stripe appears. Quite interesting though that you see the same mark on the left side of those bolts. Do you see it on any other bolts?
Another thought I had is..........to try to see if it "lengthens" if I add heavier tips. If I understand FOC right, an arrow with more FOC should flex a little more "out of the shute" because the front s a little heavier and on the out stroke the arrow flexes aboutteh center point. But then it stabilizes a bit quicker and flexes less upon hitting something because on impact it flexes about teh balance point - whcih is now closer to the front so a shorter distance = less flex = better penetration. Maybe that mark is there because of the initial flex of the bolt. ??
Keith
Stand by the roads and look, and ask for the ancient paths; where the good way is,
and walk in it and find rest for your souls. - Jer 6:16
All in all I do not think you have any thing going on out of the normal with the marks .
Next time you use the quick fletch put it a 1/2 inch more forward and you will most likely solve the problem
I do not think more f.o.c will stop the marks but I like a heavy head for good flight and consistency myself.
I shoot aluminum inserts with a 175 grain head on a fire bolt and like the combo very consistent.
Put flat nocks on. It's an easy switch. There is no glue involved, so just a twist with some pliers and you're good to go. If the string is not exactly centered in the moon nock, it will either push down or up on the nock when firing. Not good. Also Excalibur says to use flat nocks.
I do see the marks on my other arrows too ,,it just shows up better on the quick fletch. that stuff is a bit thick ..probly not the greatest for crossbow.
the way im thinking is, when that latch lets that string go and all that energy is released there has to be some kind of (burn out) happening..i think thats the marks we see..
with out the wraps its usualy the insert that gets the marking and we smell it too like a match being lit smell.
nothing to worry about, (disclaimer) im no expert ..just think out loud..
I think after all my shooting today I am not too worried. I agree that it is something happening when all the energy gets released into the arrow. I know it is flexing (as we have all seen in some high speed footage somewhere) and I think it is just rubbing a bit on the rail. Accuracy does not seem to be effected, nor does arrow speed. In my testing today I fired 3 different arrows 5 times each and measured terminal velocity at 20 yards. With the 2 carbon arrows, max to min speed difference was only 1.2 or 1.3fps across the 5 shots. With the AL arrow it was only 0.3fps. Pretty consistent.
GGC ....not sure why but I have a tough time getting the nocks out of the Horton bolts. I might just have them cut off flat.
Gerald - what head do you use that is 175gr? I'm going on a bison hunt in Dec. and am looking for some heavier stuff. I'm thinking I will want to be arounf 500gr total weight for that big of an animal.
Keith
Stand by the roads and look, and ask for the ancient paths; where the good way is,
and walk in it and find rest for your souls. - Jer 6:16
nchunterkw wrote:I think after all my shooting today I am not too worried. I agree that it is something happening when all the energy gets released into the arrow. I know it is flexing (as we have all seen in some high speed footage somewhere) and I think it is just rubbing a bit on the rail. Accuracy does not seem to be effected, nor does arrow speed. In my testing today I fired 3 different arrows 5 times each and measured terminal velocity at 20 yards. With the 2 carbon arrows, max to min speed difference was only 1.2 or 1.3fps across the 5 shots. With the AL arrow it was only 0.3fps. Pretty consistent.
GGC ....not sure why but I have a tough time getting the nocks out of the Horton bolts. I might just have them cut off flat.
Gerald - what head do you use that is 175gr? I'm going on a bison hunt in Dec. and am looking for some heavier stuff. I'm thinking I will want to be arounf 500gr total weight for that big of an animal.
I use the 175 grain slick trick very tough and accurate head they come with matching weight field tips but grouped a few inches lower so in fall I sight in and only practice with broad heads. http://www.slicktrick.net/
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Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:21 am
Location: Wake Forest, NC
like a match being lit smell.