MNR Meeting
Moderator: Excalibur Marketing Dude
MNR Meeting
Had a meeting with MNR yesterday and he informed me that they got notification that the gun registry for Ontario is staying intact now behind closed doors. He said at some point it will pop back up in full force in Ontario. Wants me to bring it to the attention of a Magazine when they come here in the next couple weeks about an unrelated story.
-
Pydpiper
- Posts: 6148
- Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:56 pm
- Location: Woodstock, Brantford'ish, ON
- Contact:
Re: MNR Meeting
Sounds like someone was pulling your leg Kevin. The registry is gone, and even if a "copy" was kept, it would be useless. A whole lot of guns have changed hands in the past month, rendering any saved data obsolete.
Only the NDP claim to have interest in restoring it, and they don't stand a chance. Even Mcsquinty now agrees it was a waste of time and money and would not try to restore it if given the chance.
The MNR has no inside information, and for them to claim that a Federal bill is being violated "behind closed doors" is a bit of a red flag.
Registry is gone.
Did you happen to get any info on crossbows for fishing? Still waiting to see that stuff in writing.
Only the NDP claim to have interest in restoring it, and they don't stand a chance. Even Mcsquinty now agrees it was a waste of time and money and would not try to restore it if given the chance.
The MNR has no inside information, and for them to claim that a Federal bill is being violated "behind closed doors" is a bit of a red flag.
Registry is gone.
Did you happen to get any info on crossbows for fishing? Still waiting to see that stuff in writing.
If you are not willing to learn, nobody can help you, if you are willing, nobody can stop you.
A bowhunter with a passion for shooting firearms.
WMU 91
Boo string
A bowhunter with a passion for shooting firearms.
WMU 91
Boo string
Re: MNR Meeting
I do not think bringing back the registry would help any political party's popularity 
Re: MNR Meeting
Ontario police keeping track of gun sales
03/05/2012 8:30:00 AM
by Nevil Hunt
The Ontario Provincial Police say a system that tracks gun sales is perfectly legal, even if the federal government has done away with the long-gun registry.
Ontario's provincial police force is keeping tabs on sales by gun vendors but the cops say the data will not be available to officers on the street.
The federal long-gun registry has been dismantled by Stephen Harper's Conservatives despite comments from police departments that the registry was a useful tool for officers. The Ontario system keeps a record of all gun sales and the name of the purchaser. Police will be able to access the information in those ledgers with a search warrant.
The fact that a large provincial police force would be willing to draw criticism and put resources into a gun tracking system says police officers think this is valuable information. In fact, it could be a life-saver if someone barred from buying firearms is one day arrested because their name appeared in a gun store ledger.
A spokesman for the Ontario's chief firearms officer said the system is not an attempt to re-create the long-gun registry scrapped by the federal government. He said it's not a registry in the same sense as the federal one.
"It won't be a central database and it won't be digitized," OPP Staff Sgt. Steve Rideout told a reporter.
Critics say it's the same thing as the old federal registry, calling the Ontario strategy a "backdoor" manoeuvre. But just as the federal government used its authority to shut down the long-gun registry, the province is well within its authority to create a made-in-Ontario solution. Ontarians should be proud that their government is willing to do what's right.
The province's chief firearms officer sent a letter to all gun dealers in Ontario in April, informing them of the ledger process. The books will record the make, model and calibre of guns sold, along with the name and firearms licence number of the person buying the gun.
That process seems like common sense. It ensures there is a proper check of the buyer's paperwork to confirm they hold a licence. Police officers will perform an audit of the ledgers every two years: not an onerous burden on gun store owners.
Given that some municipalities have registers that track who buys spray paint – an effort to cut down on graffiti – gun buyers aren't facing a major inconvenience.
Firearms lawyer Solomon Friedman says the Ontario process "subverts" the federal law. He accuses the Ontario firearms officer of "using his control over firearms business essentially to extort them into complying with a registry that the federal Parliament has rejected."
Friedman is also concerned that police might use the data from ledgers as an investigative tool. That means he's out of touch. Crimes being solved is a result we should all wish for.
03/05/2012 8:30:00 AM
by Nevil Hunt
The Ontario Provincial Police say a system that tracks gun sales is perfectly legal, even if the federal government has done away with the long-gun registry.
Ontario's provincial police force is keeping tabs on sales by gun vendors but the cops say the data will not be available to officers on the street.
The federal long-gun registry has been dismantled by Stephen Harper's Conservatives despite comments from police departments that the registry was a useful tool for officers. The Ontario system keeps a record of all gun sales and the name of the purchaser. Police will be able to access the information in those ledgers with a search warrant.
The fact that a large provincial police force would be willing to draw criticism and put resources into a gun tracking system says police officers think this is valuable information. In fact, it could be a life-saver if someone barred from buying firearms is one day arrested because their name appeared in a gun store ledger.
A spokesman for the Ontario's chief firearms officer said the system is not an attempt to re-create the long-gun registry scrapped by the federal government. He said it's not a registry in the same sense as the federal one.
"It won't be a central database and it won't be digitized," OPP Staff Sgt. Steve Rideout told a reporter.
Critics say it's the same thing as the old federal registry, calling the Ontario strategy a "backdoor" manoeuvre. But just as the federal government used its authority to shut down the long-gun registry, the province is well within its authority to create a made-in-Ontario solution. Ontarians should be proud that their government is willing to do what's right.
The province's chief firearms officer sent a letter to all gun dealers in Ontario in April, informing them of the ledger process. The books will record the make, model and calibre of guns sold, along with the name and firearms licence number of the person buying the gun.
That process seems like common sense. It ensures there is a proper check of the buyer's paperwork to confirm they hold a licence. Police officers will perform an audit of the ledgers every two years: not an onerous burden on gun store owners.
Given that some municipalities have registers that track who buys spray paint – an effort to cut down on graffiti – gun buyers aren't facing a major inconvenience.
Firearms lawyer Solomon Friedman says the Ontario process "subverts" the federal law. He accuses the Ontario firearms officer of "using his control over firearms business essentially to extort them into complying with a registry that the federal Parliament has rejected."
Friedman is also concerned that police might use the data from ledgers as an investigative tool. That means he's out of touch. Crimes being solved is a result we should all wish for.
Re: MNR Meeting
The post above is an Op-ed piece from an online "news" source. Feel free to ignore the lefty slant.
Re: MNR Meeting
There you go, the first step to a new gun control. You not think down the road it will be all guns get registered one at a time? Only will get worse after the province gets there spin how well it is working for the police catching criminals. Guess I won't be buying a gun and I hope everyone walks out of the store without that new rifle for stores that want to do it. Teach them a lesson that we will not go there again.
Then anyone buying shells for guns will go on the list of what shells they bought and it will secretly go from there. Think what you want folks as I never though it would be the total end.
Think I will now stock up on shells and get my Dad to buy them for me. I have little trust in the system.
Then anyone buying shells for guns will go on the list of what shells they bought and it will secretly go from there. Think what you want folks as I never though it would be the total end.
Think I will now stock up on shells and get my Dad to buy them for me. I have little trust in the system.
Re: MNR Meeting
This was the way it was prior to C-68. The dealer kept a record of who bought what. Not sure what good it was then. And not sure what good having dusty ledgers of who bought what will be now? Unless?
When the gun registry was brought in, our dear friends in Quebec added their own twist. When you bought a gun you sent the paperwork to the Quebec firearms office. They kept the original and entered the info into the national system. This accomplished 2 things. Gave some bureaucrats there some jobs which I'm sure we paid for. And now they have all the original paperwork to start their own registry. If they win in court of course.
If this sticks in Ontario, I'm sure down the road some crat will in the interest of "streamlining and efficiency" will try and get all the ledgers entered into a system and voila registry.
Gun dealers in Ontario are under no obligation to do as the Chief Firearms Officer has asked them to do. Of course if they don't comply then they will have their dealers licensed revoked.
When the gun registry was brought in, our dear friends in Quebec added their own twist. When you bought a gun you sent the paperwork to the Quebec firearms office. They kept the original and entered the info into the national system. This accomplished 2 things. Gave some bureaucrats there some jobs which I'm sure we paid for. And now they have all the original paperwork to start their own registry. If they win in court of course.
If this sticks in Ontario, I'm sure down the road some crat will in the interest of "streamlining and efficiency" will try and get all the ledgers entered into a system and voila registry.
Gun dealers in Ontario are under no obligation to do as the Chief Firearms Officer has asked them to do. Of course if they don't comply then they will have their dealers licensed revoked.
Re: MNR Meeting
They are just going back to the way it was before the registry.
Still have to track all legal firearm sales.
I you sell a firearm you should record all pertinent data to protect yourself in case the firearm is used to commit a crime.
Still have to track all legal firearm sales.
I you sell a firearm you should record all pertinent data to protect yourself in case the firearm is used to commit a crime.
"Death leaves a heartache no one can heal. Love leaves a memory no one can steal"
Re: MNR Meeting
The ledger system is nothing new. It was standard practice at gun shops before the registry came into effect. It's just being re-introduced now that the registry is history.
The most important blood trail leads to the Cross...
Phoenix
HHA Optimizer
Hawke scope
Boo strings
Boo tuned trigger
Phoenix
HHA Optimizer
Hawke scope
Boo strings
Boo tuned trigger
Re: MNR Meeting
If I remember correctly, the provision for the ledger system was superseded by Bill C-68 and the registry. When the registry was abolished the government did not reinstated that provision. There is not I believe any "legal" requirement for a seller of firearms to record who he sells what to whom. There is however a "request" from the provincial CFO for dealers to do so. There doesn't appear to be any legal consequences in not complying. Just the coercive threat of loss of livelihood. The only reason the CFO hasn't brought it in for private citizens is because he has no power of extortion over us as he does with the dealers. Not sure why the CFO positions didn't disappear along with the registry.
And if a dealer or private citizen wants to keep track of what they sell for their own cya reasons then more power to them But that's not what the issue is here.
Rant over
And if a dealer or private citizen wants to keep track of what they sell for their own cya reasons then more power to them But that's not what the issue is here.
Rant over
Re: MNR Meeting
And you don't think they will keep records better now than they did pre gun control? You have people protecting there jobs and know where things went wrong. They are a whole lot smarter now because of a lesson learned.TPM wrote:The ledger system is nothing new. It was standard practice at gun shops before the registry came into effect. It's just being re-introduced now that the registry is history.
Re: MNR Meeting
I buy a gun from a store, sell it to another guy next week because I did'nt like the way it fit me in the end ( my fault ) , he turn's around makes a fast buck off it because he's moving and doesn't need it where he's going. The only record of sale is to me from the store in their ledger, after that no one know's where that gun ended up. This is all an example!! Back to where we were 20 year's ago. Amen Stop Worrying!!
Re: MNR Meeting
The point I think we might be missing is this.
The ledger system was in place before C-68. That and the LAW that supported it are gone. The new requirement for records keeping is being pushed on the dealers by the CFO of Ontario. He is a Supt with the OPP. Nobody else the least bit uncomfortable with the people enforcing the law being able to make it up as well?
My problem is not with the ledger system. I'm sure in the end it will be as useless as the registry. But if you want to have it, then bring it in under fed law.
The ledger system was in place before C-68. That and the LAW that supported it are gone. The new requirement for records keeping is being pushed on the dealers by the CFO of Ontario. He is a Supt with the OPP. Nobody else the least bit uncomfortable with the people enforcing the law being able to make it up as well?
My problem is not with the ledger system. I'm sure in the end it will be as useless as the registry. But if you want to have it, then bring it in under fed law.
Last edited by OldSkool on Sat May 05, 2012 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: MNR Meeting
You are likely right. I guess I should trust our voted political leaders and the police. They would never do us wrong behind our backs or infront of us. They always look out for our best interests.Bones wrote:I buy a gun from a store, sell it to another guy next week because I did'nt like the way it fit me in the end ( my fault ) , he turn's around makes a fast buck off it because he's moving and doesn't need it where he's going. The only record of sale is to me from the store in their ledger, after that no one know's where that gun ended up. This is all an example!! Back to where we were 20 year's ago. Amen Stop Worrying!!
Re: MNR Meeting
Everybody can moan about this all they want but the paperwork will not go away as long as guns are made with serial numbers!
"Death leaves a heartache no one can heal. Love leaves a memory no one can steal"