Shooting Distance

[nchunterkw]

I shot 17 deer since i have been hunting with a xbow were allow 4 a year the farthest shot i took was 35 yards it was relaxed and looking away from me.
The average shot i took was 20 yards or less i feel its not ethical to take a shot over 40 yards ,

Not asking the ethics question.....See original post

"* please note* I am not asking if this is ethical or not like I have said everyone has their own preference.*"

[Hi5]

You made it clear that you didn't intend your question to be an ethics question in your first post.

However, your question unavoidably involves ethics. Extreme long range shots taken at game is unethical. No doubt some people have done it. However, if they confess to it in answering your post, they are doing a Wiley Coyote stunt. You know, like the one where Wiley is standing under a bunch of loose rocks, and starts poking at the rock jam to dislodge it. Good Luck to the guy who admits it.

[nchunterkw]

xcal
You are right and it is right. But physics dictates that the force applied in a specific direction is what equates to penetration, not KE. KE is simply a measure of all available energy at a given point of arrow flight, some of which goes into noise, vibration, rotation, flexion, and momentum. Force is defined as the rate of change of momentum of an object, which is why one should use momentum when talking about arrow penetration, not KE. For a much better explanation than I can give, please read this. It is very clear and easy to understand.

http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Ashby-O ... n-W19.aspx

By the way, the charts are for a 400gr arrow. What about a 500 gr arrow, or a 600gr arrow? What do the charts look like for those? How does momentum compare for those 3 arrows? You can find momentum calculators on the web. Messing around with those can help a lot in understanding how KE and P (momentum) relate. P = MV so two arrows can have the same momentum but one can get most of it from mass, while the other gets it from velocity. The one with higher mass will have significantly more terminal P than the one that derives it from velocity because the heavy arrow will slow down less than the lighter one over the same distance.

Hope this helps. I just come from a place where I think that more understanding always helps.

[Limbs and Sticks]

I can tell you this at 40yards my 350gr stick will pass thru the same animal as your 600gr stick only quicker, so I don't really know where your going with this or what your try to say. One should shoot the distance one knows they can take the game with quickly, if unsure let it go another day.

[Bones]

I can tell you this at 40yards my 350gr stick will pass thru the same animal as your 600gr stick only quicker, so I don't really know where your going with this or what your try to say. One should shoot the distance one knows they can take the game with quickly, if unsure let it go another day.

Yup!!!

[DaveShooter]

Like I have said before. I like my shots up close. The furthest crossbow shot for myself has been 10 yds to 35 or maybe 40 yds at the top end of the spectrum. Now if you know your bow and have the confidence in the shot for example 10 to 15 years ago my best friends son took a Deer at 70-yds with an older style Horton crossbow. Yes you might say lady luck or you might say knew what in the sam heck he was a doing as this boy whom is a grown man now is a heck of a shot just like his father is- Like shooting Grouse out of the air with a regular stick bow and using that same stick bow to kill a deer with at 150-yds. The funny thing about that boys crossbow kill is as he told his Dad, Grandpa, and I how he took the shot that was the deer was lying or bedded down. He watched the bolt or arrow trajectory through the scope as it flew fly through the air and into the Deer's body for the kill. What was even more fun it was the very last day of deer season for that year. It's been a true story we all have had a good one on!!!!

[tradshooter]

I will admit I have not yet taken a long shot with the xbow. I have a recurve that will shoot far. I just wanted to know if any one just out of curiosity if they thought...... hmmm I will set my target at say 70 yards and give it a shot. As for the long shot over 40 0r 50 yards I was just wondering if any one did try this at an animal... Ethical or not it is every ones own opinion as to what they feel is ethical. Doesn't mean they are right or wrong just their own personal preference.

BUT!!!! I will say the majority on here say no more than 40 yard tops for harvesting animal. Yes even with my recurve bow no more than 40 yards.

[Dave1]

The issue of taking long shots with a bow is not if you can shoot well and hit a target at the distance, the issue is that the animal can move before the arrow travels the distance and impacts the target. The results are the arrow does not hit the animal where you aimed and usually are high rearward hits i.e. gut shots. Gut shot animals are frequently unrecovered by the hunter, but die hours later after a long painful suffering.

Bow/Arrows do not kill like a rifle i.e. shock and tissue/organ destruction. Arrows kill by hemoraging i.e. loss of blood and sometimes organ destruction. An arrow shot has to be precisely placed to insure a quick demise and recovered animal. Poor shooting, taking long low percentage shots, etc., is a poor approach to deer hunting. Be patient and wait for the short range broadside shot and you will enjoy bow hunting success.

Dave

[nchunterkw]

I can tell you this at 40yards my 350gr stick will pass thru the same animal as your 600gr stick only quicker, so I don't really know where your going with this or what your try to say. One should shoot the distance one knows they can take the game with quickly, if unsure let it go another day.

Yup!!!

You might be right. At 40 yds a 350 gr arrow might have enough momentum to pass through the relatively weak rib cage of a deer. A 600 gr arrow absolutely will have enough momentum and enough to even pass through the shoulder bones provided the arrow is strong enough to not sustain any damage. Many on this thread quickly went to "40 yards is the limit". On deer I agree. The reason is they can move quickly and crossbows are loud. But what about an elk or moose or buffalo ? Big target on an animal that can't move as quickly as a deer. 50 yards too far for that shot? Heck no. But trying to bring something like that down with a light arrow at that distance would not be a good idea. I know the outfitter I hunted bison with would not let you shoot that light of an arrow. Study the arrow physics. Longer shots require a heavier arrow. You are not segueing with me. You are argueing with the laws of physics.

[Limbs and Sticks]

I can tell you this at 40yards my 350gr stick will pass thru the same animal as your 600gr stick only quicker, so I don't really know where your going with this or what your try to say. One should shoot the distance one knows they can take the game with quickly, if unsure let it go another day.

Yup!!!

You might be right. At 40 yds a 350 gr arrow might have enough momentum to pass through the relatively weak rib cage of a deer. A 600 gr arrow absolutely will have enough momentum and enough to even pass through the shoulder bones provided the arrow is strong enough to not sustain any damage. Many on this thread quickly went to "40 yards is the limit". On deer I agree. The reason is they can move quickly and crossbows are loud. But what about an elk or moose or buffalo ? Big target on an animal that can't move as quickly as a deer. 50 yards too far for that shot? Heck no. But trying to bring something like that down with a light arrow at that distance would not be a good idea. I know the outfitter I hunted bison with would not let you shoot that light of an arrow. Study the arrow physics. Longer shots require a heavier arrow. You are not segueing with me. You are argueing with the laws of physics.

I'm not aiming at the shoulder nor hunting bison, besides my tractor tire shot with heavy weights 500gr were beat by the 350gr at 20yds, I won't shoot over 40yds anyway and I hit what I aim at.

[FNARSCOT]

The question is not weather the bow can kill at a given distance it is can you. I have taken game at distance with gear that was chosen to do so and after lots of practice. Know you gear and know your limits. Only you can know what you can do with your gear. That said 50 yards is where I practice with my vertical bow and have killed at that distance. Every time, Did I start there ? Hell no it takes years of practice, everyday ,year round.Being new to cross bows I practice at 50 yds everyday. Will I kill at that range? I will let you know after I shoot for a while. How long ? Results will be different with everyone, My Matrix hits harder and flys flatter than any bow I ever owned .I shoot every day ask me I a year or two but If I were to guess 50 yds with the gear tuned is a goal within my reach. Is it for you? Only you know

[vixenmaster]

I posted my opinion of the huntin yardage & the target shootin yardage. Now to ferther expound on subject is ppl's findings & their experiances while shootin. In huntin yer shots near or far will be dictated to you by the lay of the land area yer huntin in. The faster the the arrow the quicker it gets there, less time game animals have time to react. Most animals don't react to the Bow shot, its the arrows noise as it gets very close to them they react to!

[nchunterkw]

Here is a simplified chart showing how long it will take an arrow to travel a given distance. This assumes it does not slow down during flight - but can be used for comparisons between different initial velocities.

The times are in seconds.

Anyone have any ideas on how long it takes from trigger pull to when the arrow leaves the string?


Speed, fps Shot Distance, Yds
10 20 30 40 50
250 0.120 0.240 0.360 0.480 0.600
260 0.115 0.231 0.346 0.462 0.577
270 0.111 0.222 0.333 0.444 0.556
280 0.107 0.214 0.321 0.429 0.536
290 0.103 0.207 0.310 0.414 0.517
300 0.100 0.200 0.300 0.400 0.500
310 0.097 0.194 0.290 0.387 0.484
320 0.094 0.188 0.281 0.375 0.469
330 0.091 0.182 0.273 0.364 0.455
340 0.088 0.176 0.265 0.353 0.441
350 0.086 0.171 0.257 0.343 0.429
360 0.083 0.167 0.250 0.333 0.417
370 0.081 0.162 0.243 0.324 0.405
380 0.079 0.158 0.237 0.316 0.395

[nchunterkw]

I'm not aiming at the shoulder nor hunting bison, besides my tractor tire shot with heavy weights 500gr were beat by the 350gr at 20yds, I won't shoot over 40yds anyway and I hit what I aim at.

Wes,
I looked up your tractor tire post and that was not exactly an "apples to apples" test of arrow weight. You shot a 350 grain with a Magnus 2 blade right? And the other arrows had different BHs?

In more scientific tests a 2 blade head always out performs a 3 or 4 blade head when shot from the same bow/arrow combo into real animals.

And I'm glad you always hit exactly where you aim and that nothing outside of your control ever effects the animals you shoot at, that could possibly result in a "less than desirable" hit.

[OkXbowHunter]

The question is not weather the bow can kill at a given distance it is can you. I have taken game at distance with gear that was chosen to do so and after lots of practice. Know you gear and know your limits. Only you can know what you can do with your gear. That said 50 yards is where I practice with my vertical bow and have killed at that distance. Every time, Did I start there ? Hell no it takes years of practice, everyday ,year round.Being new to cross bows I practice at 50 yds everyday. Will I kill at that range? I will let you know after I shoot for a while. How long ? Results will be different with everyone, My Matrix hits harder and flys flatter than any bow I ever owned .I shoot every day ask me I a year or two but If I were to guess 50 yds with the gear tuned is a goal within my reach. Is it for you? Only you know

It will do fine at 50 yards and beyond if you can do your part. I have an original Axiom and the furthest I've shot a deer was 53 yards. Complete pass-through and buried up several inches in the dirt about 10 yards beyond her. Arrow was a GTII with a 125 grain G5 Striker.

Each hunter has to determine what their effective range is. The Doe above was in a field feeding along peacefully. Broadside and I had a solid rest on the railing of the stand. Since I shoot at 50 yards and beyond quite regularly in practice, I had no doubt about the shot. I would only recommend this shot to those who have the confidence to do it.