Point restrictions

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grouse
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Location: Missouri

Point restrictions

Post by grouse »

I'm curious about people's opinions on prohibiting hunters from shooting bucks with less than 4 points on at least one side. Where I hunt in northern Missouri it is the law for both bow and firearm hunters.

I'll state up front that I don't like the law. Early one morning last week a buck passed 30 yards in front of my stand and I could not determine if he was legal, so I let him go. Trying to count points combined with how brief the opportunity for a shot can be is very frustrating. The example I cited above is just one of many times I have passed up bucks with both rifle and crossbow because I just could not be sure the deer was legal. I wonder how many times hunters just shoot and hope there are 4 pts. on one side (especially with rifles at longer ranges where it is even harder to count points).

I'm not a trophy hunter and I like the quality and quantity of meat that young bucks provide. I feel like some of the enjoyment of deer hunting is taken from me to satisfy the vanity of trophy hunters.

I wonder what other people think.

Grouse
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Re: Point restrictions

Post by Lake shooter »

I'm good with it. Point restrictions and increased doe harvest has had a dramatic effect on our deer herd! There are many more quality bucks roaming the woods and the deer population continues to climb, only better balanced! This means more opportunities at seeing/shooting a deer, and if food is what I'm interested in I'll take any doe over even a young buck any day of the week!
vixenmaster
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Re: Point restrictions

Post by vixenmaster »

Meat Hunter here, but i have many chances at Doe's to fill my freezer & cannin area. Grouse i live in Howell county no antler restrickions here. I hunt a woman Farmer's land in Viola Ark. thar be 3 pt on an antler to be legal there. I usually try to take 6 pts or better off my place. Which really makes no diff, as all these ppl. around me have been rifle huntin since Sept. 15th archery opener!
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grouse
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Re: Point restrictions

Post by grouse »

I live in metro St. Louis but I hunt on my farm in Pike county. My biggest problem is that it is really hard to see the brow tines on many 8 pt. bucks, so I have to pass a lot of nice deer up.

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Peacemaker
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Re: Point restrictions

Post by Peacemaker »

so do you get fined if you shoot a button buck thinking it to be a doe? It's an easy thing to do. VA just breaks deer down into 2 categories: "Antlerless," which expressly includes button bucks, and "Either sex," which means if it is a deer, you can shoot it.

The whole reason for deer hunting seasons in VA is population control....so a dead buck is a dead buck. What's the difference how old it is?

Frankly I would never intentionally shoot a fawn, a button buck, or a pregnant doe.....but the law here draws no distinction and....the population is still growing. Thankfully they do a good job of monitoring the herd size as far as I can tell, and if the herd is getting to thin then they can and shoot pass reasonable laws/rules to keep the population at a healthy level. Emphasis on reasonable. I'm not sure if counting points is reasonable.
Lake shooter
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Re: Point restrictions

Post by Lake shooter »

I just use my bino for a quick check. Sure, if a big buck comes running through there may not be time and still get a shot attempt, but with a big one there's not much doubt on points!
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Re: Point restrictions

Post by vixenmaster »

Mo. 3" & under Bucks are called legal antlerless claim them as Doe's. I seldom use Binoc's i don't have time to glass a deer when it pops out of a thicket at 30 yds n under. Its shoot now or forget it!
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Re: Point restrictions

Post by Lake shooter »

With such a law there's no need to know unless one really abhors shooting small bucks like I do. To each their own.

The areas where I hunt are thick, believe me! Still, it's rare that I don't have the time to do a quick glass. We ARE talking about reasonable archery distances here.......... Right?
Amrap
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Re: Point restrictions

Post by Amrap »

Just throwing my thoughts out there. I am from Michigan and hunt an area where there is no APR and many hunters. The land owners around here have put a 100" min on the bucks. After 3 years, we couldn't believe how different the deer hunting was. Instead of 1 buck per 20 does sighted. We were seeing 1 buck per 2-3 does with lots of competition in the bucks. Rubs, scrapes, sparring, and fighting. Too many people feel like they have to get a rack to be a successful hunter. I feel more successful now when I can harvest my animal quickly (which is why I bought an Excalibur!) , than when I would shoot (2) year and a half old bucks a year. As to your meat, I have shot quite a few deer of different ages and have not noticed a difference in the quality of the meat. If you take the time to trim the fat and silver skin off that 3 1/2 year old swamp buck will taste as good as that 1 1/2 year old doe.

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Re: Point restrictions

Post by Lake shooter »

:wink:
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nchunterkw
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Re: Point restrictions

Post by nchunterkw »

I grew up in PA where they had a long archery season of either sex, and the a rifle season of 2 weeks of buck only - no restrictions and then 2 days of doe season. Over the years that totally destroyed the herd balance as over 90% of all bucks were being killed. I can count on 1 hand probably the number of bucks I even saw. As a result there were many does not getting bred at all, and many others being bred 1 or 2 months after the peak rut in Oct-Nov. Spreading that out lie that then gave the coyotes and foxes a much longer time to kill fawns in the spring because the deer were dropping them over such a spread out time period. Gary Alt took over managing that herd he put in antler restrictions and that helped a lot.
In Ohio where I lived for 17 years there were no restrictions, and all seasons were any sex, but the number of bucks were limited to 1 per hunter. That herd is healthy and I saw tons of deer and tons of bucks and killed several very nice bucks. Of course the agricultural habitat didn't hurt either.

So like anything - in some cases it makes good sense to put in antler restrictions - but not in all cases.
As a side note,
If you look at antler growth by year for a whitetail, you might be surprised at the difference a year makes. I was just talking with our wildlife biologist here in NC and he told me it takes a deer about 3 years for the body to mature. So for the first 3 years a deer is basically just growing. After that a lot more of the nutrients go into antler production. The difference between a 1 1/2 yr old's horns and the horns from that same deer a year later are astounding. Probably like a small spike or 4pt to a 110 class kind of difference. There is a guy near Cook's Forest State Park in PA that raises deer and has the sheds from all of his deer mounted in a room. He has them from 1 1/2 yrs to 10 or 13years old when they die of old age all mounted one above the other for each deer. Very interesting. It is very obvious that there is a HUGE jump in antler size from 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 and then they peak between 3 1/2 to 6 1//2 and then they stay pretty big but start to get weird after that. Extra points, crab claws etc.

So when they put in antler restrictions, it is just a way to try to get hunters to shoot more mature deer by letting the young ones grow up.
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sumner4991
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Re: Point restrictions

Post by sumner4991 »

A couple of years ago, in VA., I shot two bucks and thought both were 8 pointers . . .they were both 6 pointers, no brow tines . . .so, I can understand your frustrations.

I personally am a meat hunter . . .a deer is a deer.
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nchunterkw
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Re: Point restrictions

Post by nchunterkw »

The place in PA is called the Double Diamond Deer Ranch. I looked for some pictures. There was 1 but it was too small to really see what I was talking about.
Keith
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and walk in it and find rest for your souls. - Jer 6:16

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Lake shooter
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Re: Point restrictions

Post by Lake shooter »

In almost total agreement with that last poster but I have a perfect example of the opposite side of the coin. In the fall of 1997 we drove down to Prescott Arkansas to look at lab puppies, down in what's known as Arkansas' "deer factory". Back then it should have been more apply called "doe factory"' but I digress.

I found out through conversation that the old gent with the pups was also a deer hunter, gun only. On the next visit down to pick up our then older pup he took me to see his deer camp. As I walked in, the sight on the far wall left me mentally shaking my head: the whole wall was covered with the antlers/skullcaps of small spikes and forkies............ Which the owner called "cull deer"!!!!! He then went in to say that nobody in his parts had as much as seen a "good buck" in years, but they were doing their part to help out by shooting every cull buck in sight! :oops:

I had to bite my tongue as it was his place and a useless argument to his mindset. Every head on the wall was of course from first and second season bucks, and he wondered why they never saw any "good" ones, but this way of thinking and the lament of "cull bucks" was rampant here back then and still exists in some camps and minds to this day!
Last edited by Lake shooter on Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kegbelly
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Re: Point restrictions

Post by Kegbelly »

I'm mostly in favor of them, it gives an area a chance to produce large mature bucks. It did work against me once though... the WMA here is divided into 2 zones, one zone has antler restriction of 4-points or better on one side. Missed the biggest buck I've ever seen one morning rifle hunting. He trotted out onto a long narrow greenfield then stopped right at the far edge of the field, looking around and bobbing his head. I got hung up on trying to count points with unsteady hands, the longer I watched the shakier I got. Had a picture perfect broadside shot at about 110 yds and I flat out missed. Watched him for too long and let it rattle me. :oops: But without the restrictions he probably would never have got that big anyhow.
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