Point restrictions

[Pa Hunter 64]

When we started the antler restriction here in Pa,I was very doubtful of the overall effect that would take place but now that we have been under them for a few years now I can actually say that they have helped. I am seeing more branch antlered bucks than I ever had in the past and I am in my 52nd year hunting deer in this state. I totally understand your frustration with the 4 points and counting the brow tines to get there been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Last year they changed our area to a three up rule a legal buck must have three points on one side bracket it does make a big difference in determining what you can shoot and the brow tines do not count, that puts all those six pointers with no brow tines in the legal bracket. Plus as an added benefit the junior hunters are bound to the old rules which makes anything with a 3 inch spike or more legal. That lasts until they are 17 years old

[Lake shooter]

Funny how when bucks get older they are almost NEVER spikes or forkies, hence the "more branched antlers"!

Give it another 5 years and you just might be amazed! Something that the self proclaimed "meat hunters" often miss: a more balanced sex ratio and more varied age structure among the bucks leads to healthier and larger deer of both sexes, and that means more meat for your $$$ and effort!

[vixenmaster]

This is one of those things that jus has ppl. pickin sides Yay n nay. Personally i don't care about pt. restrictions one way or the other. I mostly shoot Doe's, every once in awhile i will pop a small Buck if'en i need meat. Those antlers are a Bonus, but i am not a Hunter of big Racks fer the Rack. I am not goin to let one walk if'en it range & gives a clear shot. I eat hamburger & sauage also!

[grouse]

I agree with Vixenmaster and I appreciate the respectful way everyone has expressed their opinion. This has been informative.

Grouse

[sumner4991]

I just wanted to clarify, I am in favor of the restrictions.

We did some self imposed restrictions on our property . . .and that's how I found out that it can be hard at times.

But, I tend to forget about those restrictions during bow season.

I can't seem to get my cousin to hold off on shooting anything that's brown either. We are out there to have a good time and it's no big deal as long as it's a legal kill since the deer are plentiful.

I think it would take about 5 years to really see the difference and if we saw more large racks, then it would be easier to hold off on shooting the little ones.

[onebigskittle]

Restrictions wont stop the killers, They are going to shoot anything they can anyway.
I have shot deer that shrunk up or lost that big rack I thought I saw before the shot was taken so all restrictions will do is make more illegal deer taken in my opinion.

[Kegbelly]

Restrictions wont stop the killers, They are going to shoot anything they can anyway.
I have shot deer that shrunk up or lost that big rack I thought I saw before the shot was taken so all restrictions will do is make more illegal deer taken in my opinion.

Agreed. Everybody makes mistakes, I've shot button bucks for does even at bow range. But there are ethical, law abiding hunters and then there are others. Unfortunately it's the others that give hunting a bad name. That's why the regulations book gets thicker every year, they can't trust the hunter to do the right thing.

[DuckHunt]

Where I grew up in Eastern Arkansas they instituted antler restrictions about the same time the land was merged into the White River National Wildlife Refuge in the early 1990s. Most people hated the idea. I'm sure there were a number of illegal kills the first year. I heard of cases of 'ground checking'. But, five years after the rule was put in place there was a lot of people in favor of it.

The area is rich in food sources and habitat. Allowing bucks to get an additional year or two of age paid great dividends in the size and number of quality bucks harvested. Bucks with 8 points or larger became the norm instead of the exception. They have since removed the rule and slowly the average size of the antlers is dropping back down as hunters begin to harvest more young bucks.

I like the idea, but I can understand the frustration with it. My son killed a big six point on Monday with his bow. He thought it was an eight point till it was on the ground. It had no brow tines. Its the largest (width and height) rack in the house, but its only a 6-point. Under a four point rule he would have had to let him walk.

I have a bigger issue in my area with doe only gun seasons. The only reason you hunt them is for the meat. You think its hard to count points. At dusk, it is extremely difficult to tell a doe from a four inch spike any distance away. We've let a lot of deer walk that we didn't see horns on, but we couldn't be positive that it was a doe. Its not as frustrating as letting a big buck walk, but it is annoying.

DuckHunt

[Lake shooter]

Exactly.

About 8 or so seasons back I had a group of does and yearlings come in on me later in the day. At last legal light one was below me (20+ feet up) and maybe 5-7 yards from my tree, and downhill. I glassed this deer's head GOOD, saw no bone or buttons and took the shot. When I found the deer it was a buck!!! It had one really skinny spike about 2" long and another really skinny one about 5", making it an illegal buck in Arkansas. To be legal here a buck had to have 3 or more points on one side or less than 3" of hardened bone.

I was really pissed at myself because I don't believe in shooting baby bucks, I hunt legal, and the eyesight thingy. I had a very mild astigmatism but had never gotten glasses because I had done just fine until now, but low light is the kicker!
I called the Game warden and turned myself in because it was the right thing to do. He came out the next day and wrote me a warning ticket and said "thanks for calling. Most people would have left it there or not called".

I got my first glasses not long after that and wear them ONLY when bow hunting!
Problem solved!!!

[rayman]

I have always liked the idea of everyone having the option of getting one deer either sex with no point restrictions, if they so choose, then wait for a big one. A responsible number of does to be decided on and distributed accordingly.

The problem that I have seen most often is getting everyone to do what is right. Policy is grand, but there has to be a big boss man, to turn policy into practice.

[Zap]

P&Y or a doe......

[Lake shooter]

P&Y or a doe......

I'll drink to that!!!

[nchunterkw]

In almost total agreement with that last poster but I have a perfect example of the opposite side of the coin. In the fall of 1997 we drove down to Prescott Arkansas to look at lab puppies, down in what's known as Arkansas' "deer factory". Back then it should have been more apply called "doe factory"' but I digress.

I found out through conversation that the old gent with the pups was also a deer hunter, gun only. On the next visit down to pick up our then older pup he took me to see his deer camp. As I walked in, the sight on the far wall left me mentally shaking my head: the whole wall was covered with the antlers/skullcaps of small spikes and forties............ Which the owner called "cull deer"!!!!! He then went in to say that nobody in his parts had as much as seen a "good buck" in years, but they were doing their part to help out by shooting every cull buck in sight!

I had to bite my tongue as it was his place and a useless argument to his mindset. Every head on the wall was of course from first and second season bucks, and he wondered why they never saw any "good" ones, but this way of thinking and the lament of "cull bucks" was rampant here back then and still exist in some camps and minds to this day!

I can't tell you how many times I've heard "Once a spike always a spike" but any deer biologist in the world will tell you that is flat wrong. They see far more data than most of us, so IMO we should trust what they say.

[Knymc]

I used to dislike any antler restrictions, but I never saw many bucks either here in East Texas. About 5 years ago the state instituted a county wide antler restriction in many counties. 13" inside spread or spike on one side. I grumbled and continued. But each year I have seen more and more better bucks and an increase in the number of bucks. This year the landowner ( a Timber Management Company) who owns thousands of acres here, instituted a 14" inside spread or must be at least 3 1/2 yrs old to be a shooter. Talk about hard to judge when sometimes you may only have literally 5 secs to decide to shoot or not. I ended up letting 3 good bucks go last year as I was uncertain on them. Last season did not shoot a buck, but took 2 does for the freezer. That said, I have several good shooters on game cam this year. It was hard going these last 5 years or so, but it has paid off I believe.

I now like the rules. It allows the young deer to mature, better buck/doe ratios, and satisfies trophy hunters needs to shoot a good buck. I had rather look at bucks than does all year. Simply stated, I now know I can shoot a good buck to be proud of and still put meat in the freezer if all else fails with does.

[DuckHunt]

When I found the deer it was a buck!!! It had one really skinny spike about 2" long and another really skinny one about 5", making it an illegal buck in Arkansas. To be legal here a buck had to have 3 or more points on one side or less than 3" of hardened bone.

I feel your pain. Heck, I've even had the problem in clear daylight. But its awful doe hunting in low light. During a "doe only" season, I think they should change the rules. They should allow folks to shoot a doe, or any buck whose ears can totally hide his antlers. Obviously many folks would let a young buck walk, but it sucks to let doe walk in doe season because you can't be certain its not a buck.

DuckHunt