Power stroke/Draw lenght

[pstjohn]

The draw length is measured along the bolt ramp. So the picture on the left.

Both sides of the image were intended to indicate a measurement along the bolt ramp. My kindergarten drawing skills may have failed me. I only meant to show that one *could* read the term "outer edge" in such a way that where one stops on the bolt ramp was ambiguous.

I also did not intend to indicate which method was correct, only that more than one interpretation was possible. What I thought the regs meant was the left image. What the MNR told me (in the message I posted) was the right image was correct.

-P.

[way123hockey]

My bad. If you do contact the MNR again I would be curious to hear what they have to say.
Wayne

[cevans]

Do you really think a DNR officer would be out in the field carrying a tape measuer with him? In Ontario? Are they that critical? Just want to hear your answers as I would think they wouldn't be checking that, and more into the license, having all the tags on the killed animal, etc.

[way123hockey]

PST is right. Better to find out before than after. I believe the Excals are legit but if your not sure it doesn't hurt to check.

[awshucks]

Yep check it out again this yr just like y'all did last yr............

[way123hockey]

When it comes to bow hunting you have to be consistent.

[pstjohn]

I just got off the phone with 'Chris' at the MNR. He confirmed that the measurement is from the string at rest where it crosses the deck to the string when fully cocked. I explained that this would make bows like the Excalibur 330 not qualify for big game in Ontario while less powerful bows would qualify. He indicated that he could not provide specific reasoning for that measurement, but that it was definitely the way the MNR defines draw length.

With regards to the poster that questioned if a CO in the field would be more interested in measuring draw length or checking licenses. I personally think you are correct in that they would be more interested in licenses. However, *if* they did want to measure draw length I want the bow I'm carrying to meet the specs. But that's just my opinion...

Cheers,
-P.

[ehntr]

He is wrong. You cannot redefine the definition of "draw length". He is most assuredly confusing "draw length" for "power stroke". An industry is built on the terms, definitions and other lexicon generally used in archery. AMO describes definitions not the Ontario MNR. A charge would not survive. I strongly suggest that you provide "MNR Chris" with the legal definition of draw length.

[dutchhunter]

why would the mnr not carry a tape to check draw length .thy carry a rubber hose to check for magazine plugs in are shotguns .been checked almost every year in are controlled hunt Dutch

[Bones]

Fairly easy to see in the reg's ! Poor chris at the mnr is wrong. He doesn't know what the reg's say …. not surprised !

[pstjohn]

He is wrong. You cannot redefine the definition of "draw length". He is most assuredly confusing "draw length" for "power stroke". An industry is built on the terms, definitions and other lexicon generally used in archery. AMO describes definitions not the Ontario MNR. A charge would not survive. I strongly suggest that you provide "MNR Chris" with the legal definition of draw length.

1) I am fairly confident that the ATA (formerly the AMO), a trade association, simply does not define law in Ontario (or likely anywhere). No more so than the automotive industry gets to set laws regarding emissions, speed limits, and safety requirements (they can lobby, advise, etc. but not set laws).

2) I would far rather stay within specifications than fight it out in court.

3) My searches for crossbow draw length yielded various definitions from: a) Crossbows don't have a draw length, b) it's the same as power stroke, c) it's measured from forward end of ramp to string when cocked, d) The various regulatory bodies have different definitions - check with yours.

4) My (admittedly cursory) search of the ATA website did not find a definition for crossbow draw length.

5) People are free to proceed with their choice of hunting tools as they see fit. I'm simply telling you what two different representatives of the Ontario MNR (The regulatory body for Ontario - NOT a trade association) have told me. I'm going to adhere to the regulations and the clarification the MNR has provided me. Others are free to proceed however they see fit.

-P

[ehntr]

So your new bow is not a legal crossbow for for hunting, as determined by one mans opinion in the MNR and therefore you will not hunt with that bow? That is your course of action? I am not from ON, therefore I have no skin in the game. I am sure that Excalibur and/or others from ON will ensure that this mans option is overturned.

[cjonesth]

This is a copy and paste from the Ontario Hunting Regulations published in August 2014.

The draw length of a crossbow is measured along the bolt
ramp (where the bolt rests) from the outer edge of the
main limb, to the anchor point (release latch mechanism)
at full draw.

Here is a link to the regs.

https://dr6j45jk9xcmk.cloudfront.net/do ... ations.pdf

[pstjohn]

So your new bow is not a legal crossbow for for hunting, as determined by one mans opinion in the MNR and therefore you will not hunt with that bow? That is your course of action? I am not from ON, therefore I have no skin in the game. I am sure that Excalibur and/or others from ON will ensure that this mans option is overturned.

I can certainly understand not wanting to go through the tedium of reading all the posts in this thread, however if you had you'd know that:

1) I did not buy the 330 (I was considering it but will likely get the 380).
2) It is not one man's opinion. I have two independent confirmations from the MNR on how they measure draw length.

This is a case where the regulations (or perhaps just the definition of draw length) doesn't really make sense to me. I will be writing the MNR to encourage a change (and hope others do as well). However, this year I will be sure to stay on the right side of the law and I will be hunting with a bow that clearly meets the specifications set by our regulatory body.

[pstjohn]

This is a copy and paste from the Ontario Hunting Regulations published in August 2014.

The draw length of a crossbow is measured along the bolt
ramp (where the bolt rests) from the outer edge of the
main limb, to the anchor point (release latch mechanism)
at full draw.

Here is a link to the regs.

https://dr6j45jk9xcmk.cloudfront.net/do ... ations.pdf

Yes that is a direct quote. However, it is ambiguous (as explained earlier in this thread). I assumed it to mean from end of bolt ramp to string when fully cocked but realized that it was possible to interpret it differently and therefore contacted the MNR for clarification. Twice. Both times they confirmed that my assumption, and apparently many others, was NOT correct and that in the field they are measuring from sting at rest to string fully cocked.

-P.