FOC Broadhead

[Normous]

Nice photos, I'm thinking venison backstrap supper seeing that.

[redarlo]

Love the FOC. Used for last 4 deer taken with longest track of 75 yards, shortest 15 yards. 3 with my 380 and one with my 405 shooting an 18" arrow with overall weight of 450 grains. The entrance and exit wounds and subsequent blood trails are nothing short of devastating. Have decided to set up arrows to use with my Axiom next fall as I would like to see how effective this broadhead will be with this setup too. I have used alot of different broadheads but 3" of cutting surface simply puts this weapon in a separate category. Blades are easy to replace and heads fly like fieldpoints. I have never worried about blades opening even with 405 as I found that using the small tool enclosed with replacement blades allows you to increase tension on the retention clip to allow you to adjust the cutting blade tightness by slightly bending retention clip against the blade.

[img]http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah2 ... kkflgx.jpg[/img]

[IMG]http://i58.tinypic.com/2nitp41.jpg[/IMG]

[Normous]

Redarlo, you most here open a Photobucket account, upload photo's and transfer the "forum" link to this forum. It is a but tricky at first but easy when you get the hang of it.

[xcaliber]

You guys are making me think you like these. Question to the users, do these lock into position without bands, or O-Rings?

[cdwester]

I just switched from Xbow Slick Tricks to the F.O.C.s and don't think I'll be going back anytime soon. The Slick Tricks are a great broadhead but let me tell you these things do some serious damage.

[nchunterkw]

redario I would love oh see how the FOC performs out of an axiom. I would suggest using a heavy enough arrow to have a momentum close to 0.6.
Vixen master you have some experience with lower poundage bows and the larger Swhackers right? Some didn't pass through? Might give some insight.
It takes some energy to open a big blade like that. Especially on a mature animal.

[vixenmaster]

I found pass-through's with the lower poundage Excal model. You needed the arrow wt. fer good penetration, some ppl. don't want to give any speed. Thats a must usin bigger cut Mech. in lower powered models. I wouldn't use any arrow wt under 385gr, & 400+ would be better

[redarlo]

nchunterkc- Thanks much
I have always used a heavier arrow with the Axiom. Since I always use the 39 grain NuFletch Ignitor in rear I use a front insert of variable weight depending on which broadhead I am using. For example, if I use a 125 grain head I use an 80 brass insert, 100 grain head I use a 105 brass insert (grind off 5 grains before insertion), and if I use the FOC I use a 35 grain aluminum insert (grind off 3 grains) so that all of my arrows have 205 grain combination of insert and broadhead. My overall arrow weight is 445 grains as I use 18" arrows (10.5 GPI) with 2" blazers out of Axiom. I like this combination after a lot of testing because these arrows with this weight setup group awesome out to 50 yards. I use essentially the same arrow out of my 380 and 405 except that I found that increasing front weight by 15 grains from these two crossbows seem to group a little tighter at 460 grains than the 445 grains I use in the Axiom. For arrows that I do not have an Ignitor installed and used for target practice I simply use a 38 grain aluminum insert that is the normal Diablo front insert so that all arrows are evenly weight matched at front and rear. I am not that concerned about overall speed as I like the accuracy that this setup gives me. I used to shoot a 500 grain cedar arrow with a Ben Perason Deadhead out of my 45 pound Bear Grizzly recurve that killed alot of deer. I think the Axiom at this arrow weight will be fast enough and be effective but will see and followup with you next fall.

[SEW]

I hope this isn't a deal breaker for some, but I occasionally don't get passthru's with the FOCs: xbows used - Strykeforce, SZ380,M380/405. The deer that don't have pass-thru's usually go down quicker. Blood trails seem to be no problem even when no pass-thru. I usually see the deer hit the ground from the stand though. I have a goal of starting to gut the deer in <5 min from the shot. FOCs help facilitate this.

One of the non-passthru's . An instantaneous shot. We met head yo head. Strykeforce/FOC. DRT


They do bleed out fast.


Even the blood trails aren't hard to follow.

[nchunterkw]

nchunterkc- Thanks much
I have always used a heavier arrow with the Axiom. Since I always use the 39 grain NuFletch Ignitor in rear I use a front insert of variable weight depending on which broadhead I am using. For example, if I use a 125 grain head I use an 80 brass insert, 100 grain head I use a 105 brass insert (grind off 5 grains before insertion), and if I use the FOC I use a 35 grain aluminum insert (grind off 3 grains) so that all of my arrows have 205 grain combination of insert and broadhead. My overall arrow weight is 445 grains as I use 18" arrows (10.5 GPI) with 2" blazers out of Axiom. I like this combination after a lot of testing because these arrows with this weight setup group awesome out to 50 yards. I use essentially the same arrow out of my 380 and 405 except that I found that increasing front weight by 15 grains from these two crossbows seem to group a little tighter at 460 grains than the 445 grains I use in the Axiom. For arrows that I do not have an Ignitor installed and used for target practice I simply use a 38 grain aluminum insert that is the normal Diablo front insert so that all arrows are evenly weight matched at front and rear. I am not that concerned about overall speed as I like the accuracy that this setup gives me. I used to shoot a 500 grain cedar arrow with a Ben Perason Deadhead out of my 45 pound Bear Grizzly recurve that killed alot of deer. I think the Axiom at this arrow weight will be fast enough and be effective but will see and followup with you next fall.

This seems good to me from an Axiom. I did a quick momentum calc. and with a 445gr arrow, using the 1fps/5gr rule of thumb you should be around 286fps. That yields a momentum of 0.56. It will be interesting to see how that performs on that big 12pt that is going to pop out at 20yds broadside for you next season.

[nchunterkw]

SEW - I see what you mean, but I will admit I am biased away from mechs due to my previous experience with Rage 2 blades from my Horton Legend XL. Lost a big buck I hit right behind the shoulder at about 8 yds, from the ground. Arrow only went in a few inches. He bled like hell but I never found him. Must have been 1 lung. To be fair, I did not understand as much back then as I do now, and that arrow did not probably weigh enough, not have a stiff enough spine to use a big mech properly. So I am just cautious. One thing different about these heads is I do not hear the "love it or hate it" type comments like you do with a Rage. Pretty much all comments are positive.

Curious, why the goal to gut within 5 min? Here in NC, I usually try to get to them quickly too - esp. when it's hot out, but not 5 min. Should I?

[Species8472]

I hope this isn't a deal breaker for some, but I occasionally don't get passthru's with the FOCs: xbows used - Strykeforce, SZ380,M380/405. [/img]

I had one case where I did not have pass thru. Broadside buck at 25 yards. As soon as the bolt cleared the riser it lost one of the vanes and because it had a luminock on it I could clearly see the wobble in the flight as the bolt flew to the target. Bolt impacted dead on into the shoulder blade (about 4 inches off target due to lost vane) and exploded both shoulder blades. Both shoulders were shattered and chisel tip just broke the skin on the offside. One blade snapped off the FOC. Needless to say with both shoulders destroyed recovery was only about 5 yards.

[nchunterkw]

I hope this isn't a deal breaker for some, but I occasionally don't get passthru's with the FOCs: xbows used - Strykeforce, SZ380,M380/405. [/img]

I had one case where I did not have pass thru. Broadside buck at 25 yards. As soon as the bolt cleared the riser it lost one of the vanes and because it had a luminock on it I could clearly see the wobble in the flight as the bolt flew to the target. Bolt impacted dead on into the shoulder blade (about 4 inches off target due to lost vane) and exploded both shoulder blades. Both shoulders were shattered and chisel tip just broke the skin on the offside. One blade snapped off the FOC. Needless to say with both shoulders destroyed recovery was only about 5 yards.

I think something like this happened to me as described above. Weak spine, meant the arrow oscillated a lot and close in like that was still oscillating at impact because the weak spine meant it would take longer to stabilize. So the force was not all directed in the line of flight because the BH was pointing off due to the oscillation. IMO another reason to shoot something like a Zombie or Executioner shaft. What if this happened to you and you were shooting an Axiom, versus same exact thing but a tough fixed blade on the end? These BHs sound worlds better than a Rage to me, but I think one will have to be smart if using them from a low poundage bow. The power from the 380 and 405 makes up for a lot. Truly devastating weapon.

[SEW]

SEW - I see what you mean, but I will admit I am biased away from mechs due to my previous experience with Rage 2 blades from my Horton Legend XL. Lost a big buck I hit right behind the shoulder at about 8 yds, from the ground. Arrow only went in a few inches. He bled like hell but I never found him. Must have been 1 lung. To be fair, I did not understand as much back then as I do now, and that arrow did not probably weigh enough, not have a stiff enough spine to use a big mech properly. So I am just cautious. One thing different about these heads is I do not hear the "love it or hate it" type comments like you do with a Rage. Pretty much all comments are positive.

Curious, why the goal to gut within 5 min? Here in NC, I usually try to get to them quickly too - esp. when it's hot out, but not 5 min. Should I?

I am intensely prejudiced against the Rage. I killed a few deer with them during the first 2 years of the Rage's debut. Spectacular or terrible results: never lost one but I'm persistent ! My son has lost at least a third of his Rage hit deer, maybe 1/2, but has lost none of his SF or FOC hit deer. DO NOT BASE YOUR VIEW of MECHANICALS on the RAGE!!!

Venison is a stable in our diet! No beef, rarely ham, etc. We're health addicts. I gut instantly, hang for 3-4 days, wx or processor permitting. People just can't believe the taste of our deer, including even making hamburgers, etc. I think immediate gutting, washing out, skinning, hanging 3-4 days all help. Like aged beef. I'm fortunate in that most of my deer are killed w/i 300 yds of my back door. That neck shot deer was w/i 100 yds and w/i 25 min of leaving my dental office.
Like no one should judge all fixed blade broad heads by any certain one, neither is a fair assessment of expandables made by Rages, IMO .
Remember, or be aware, that on controlled hunts such as on military reservations, mechanicals always have higher recovery rates than fixed blades.

[nchunterkw]

IMO this has been a good exchange and has given me plenty to think about and experiment with. Not sure I'll give mechs a try again or not but if I do you have convinced me this is the one to go for. Now if I had a 380 or 405 I think it's a slam dunk.
I did see the military grounds hunt data about BHs. Don't remember all the details just that I had a few questions about the data collected. I got over 500 pieces of data on how far deer travelled after being shot from 2 other members on here andi analyzed the data by BH type number of blades cutting dia you name it and it showed no statistical difference in anything. Basically showed that 90% of deer make it less than 100 yds and 50% only make it 55 or less regardless of BH used. I have found this to be true in my experience with a few exceptions of course. And that is from hunting in NC and OH where the deer are much bigger. It's in a thread called How Far Deer Travel After The Shot on here.