question on speed

[xbowrook]

I have a question ..I just bought a brand new Axiom and love it. It's a little loud so I am going to get the S5 system to quiet it down. I want to get a little more speed out of it so I heard going to the Flemish strings will increase speed? I also have the 150 grain b/heads...gonna go down to 125 grain...also wanna go to a nockturnal lighted nocks or east on tracer nock...anyone have experience with any of these ( either Flemish or lighted nocks)?

[paulaboutform]

The lighted nocks add weight and reduce speed.
Flemish strings CAN be faster but it depends on the string and how it's made. ie., the string material used and the number of strands used to make it. The thicker the string material and more strands used, the quieter and more stable the bow will seem, but also slower. I use a Flemish boo string made with 28 strands of Force 10 and it seems to be a great balance of speed and stability. That and the Rhino were the two fastest strings I've tested and I'm very happy with the force 10.

Paul

[amythntr]

No experience with the other lighted nock but I have heard of issues with the Nocturnals... You will find that for those of us who need a lighted caboose... The Lumenoks 28g and the Ignitors 39g are tried and true.... I have used both and have had no issues with either... I have settled in on the Ignitors for their simplicity of design and ease in extinguishing.... But wouldn't hesitate on the Lumenok if weight became an apparent issue!

Anthony

[georgiaboy]

I shoot 125gr heads on my factory firebolts total arrow weight 393grns using an excal flemish string and 2" blazer vanes, chrony's at 298fps.
Your mileage may vary.

[hankenhunter]

Congrats on the Axiom! Once I switched to the flemish, I never looked back. They are slightly slower than an endless loop string but they make up for it with , durability, less stretching, less chance of breaking if you dryfire, and the multicolor coolness factor. Don't expect a huge decrease in noise using the string stoppers. They tend to reduce the vibration more, prolong string life, and may save your limbs if you have a dryfire. As for lit nocks, I use lumenoks so I cant help you there.
Hank

[xbowrook]

Thanks for the input guys... Not sure what to do now...lol... Have to visit my archery shop and talk to the owner, see how I can make it a little quieter... Speed isn't a major issue, its still pretty quick... Might go with lumenock, not sure...

[Cossack]

Other than pull weight, the primary factor affecting speed, of any crossbow, is the weight of the arrow, string and objects on the limbs. Thus a Flemish string will be 'faster' than an endless loop it's being compared to only if it weighs less.

[amythntr]

Thanks for the input guys... Not sure what to do now...lol... Have to visit my archery shop and talk to the owner, see how I can make it a little quieter... Speed isn't a major issue, its still pretty quick... Might go with lumenock, not sure...

...do a search of lumenoks and ingitors...they each have benefits and drawbacks...the biggest benefit for me that convinced me to switch was the ease in extinguishing and the ability to practice without the light stick inside the nock....both the Lumenok and the Ignitor can be used without glueing however the Lumenoks are just pushed into the back of the raw shaft where the Ignitors which are designed to be glued into the shaft can be inserted using a plastic bag to fill the space between the insert and the interior diameter of the shaft...

...The Lumenoks require a pair of pliers (recommend Danny Miller's) to pull the lumenok out far enough to break the circuit...the Ignitors- just pull out the plastic nock take out the light stick pull the lighted bulb till it turns off and reinsert into shaft and reinsert the nock and you are good to go.

...either one is should be purchased for a .300 ID if you are shooting BEA Executioners, Zombie Slayers or Gold Tip arrows....Hope this helps!

...and oh BTW I shoot a Flemish string made by various craftsman on this forum....

Anthony

[galamb]

I wouldn't get too hung up on SPEED. No matter what you do you are talking about pretty small numbers - on the order of 10 to 20 fps depending on the model (and in the case of the Axiom you might squeak out 17 more fps).

If you hunt the bow that would mean @ 30 yards (90 feet) the arrow that took a whopping .312 seconds to reach the target with the factory string would make it there .017 seconds "faster" (assuming you are using the lightest arrow possible).

What a faster arrow will do is keep the trajectory a little flatter and it will hit marginally harder, but again, small numbers.

I run a Vix II with S5, dissipatior bars, a custom flemish string with whiskers and it is still "LOUD" - these things make noise no matter what you do.

I would get comfortable with the factory string and the arrow/broadhead combo you want to use FIRST before you start "tweaking". Then if you want to fiddle around change one thing at a time and see how it works for you.

[wildcatter]

I wouldn't get too hung up on SPEED. No matter what you do you are talking about pretty small numbers - on the order of 10 to 20 fps depending on the model (and in the case of the Axiom you might squeak out 17 more fps).

If you hunt the bow that would mean @ 30 yards (90 feet) the arrow that took a whopping .312 seconds to reach the target with the factory string would make it there .017 seconds "faster" (assuming you are using the lightest arrow possible).

What a faster arrow will do is keep the trajectory a little flatter and it will hit marginally harder, but again, small numbers.

I run a Vix II with S5, dissipatior bars, a custom flemish string with whiskers and it is still "LOUD" - these things make noise no matter what you do.

I would get comfortable with the factory string and the arrow/broadhead combo you want to use FIRST before you start "tweaking". Then if you want to fiddle around change one thing at a time and see how it works for you.

This is correct, and most put to much emphasis on 10 or 20 fps, like was said it's not even worth having if you have to trade anything for it, its meaningless.
Beside being less than 200ths of second faster getting there, 20 fps only get's you 3/4" flater at 30 yards also, but if your using a crossbow scope with adjustable power (speed setting) it is totally meaningless!!

The one misconception here is the lighter arrow running faster, "hitting harder",,,,it wont, it will hit with less energy than a slower heavier arrow in the same bow. It is true as weight goes up, speed goes down,, but,, energy goes up. I have tested this in any number of recurve and compound bows, and every bow I have owned shoots is highest energy with the heaviest arrows I shoot in it. I have went as heavy as 637 grains in my 380 and at 300 fps it has more energy than the factory bolt at 380 fps. Same with my Phoenix and every one in between those bows.

I would never trade speed for shootability consistence, energy, noise etc etc,,, I want 400 grains or heavier.

[xbowrook]

Great input guys, thanks.... Not gonna do much other than the s5's I think...and broad heads... So many options....

[Talltines]

Yup dont try to make a bow that has a specific speed of whatever bow you choose faster. Those extra couple FPS wont do nothing for you but possibly make your bow more of a firecracker so to speek. As you would have to use the lightest arrows possible with a specific string and nothing good will come of it.


Now I am all for speed. I love it for its faster TOF and flatter trajectory. But what did I do..... I bought a bow designed for it. A scorpyd slp 165 SLP and I shoots 436 gr arrow at 433 FPS.

So what I am saying dont try to make your bow what it is NOT. Either buy a bow that has the performance you want or just be happy with what you have.


Oh... the Ignitors are the cats meow. Love them and wont go to anything else with my 405.


Best of luck

[coolhl]

Whatever happened to Einstein's
E=mv2
Energy Equals mass times velocity squared?
Speed should account for more energy than mass.

Is it really a matter of energy or momentum of the arrow we are concerned about.
Must be a physicist among us who can explain this...
Norm
This explains it in simple terms
http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/classe ... _reln.html

[vixenmaster]

Lots of good info here on this topic. Remember it only takes so much energy to get a pass-through on a deer! After that yer jus seein how far the arrow will go or penetrate in anudder object. Fer me any arrow from 350gr on up to 450gr is way plenty. Now if'en yer reachin out there at 50 + yds weight n momentum be yer friend. If'en yer deer avg. less than a real 200 lbs on the hoof the lighter faster arrows will work fine 40 yds maybe 50 yds be fine

[Limbs and Sticks]

Whatever happened to Einstein's
E=mv2
Energy Equals mass times velocity squared?
Speed should account for more energy than mass.

Is it really a matter of energy or momentum of the arrow we are concerned about.
Must be a physicist among us who can explain this...
Norm
This explains it in simple terms
http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/classe ... _reln.html

I did a test with a tractor tire, some here won't want to see it again, speed won hands down for penetration. 350gr arrow verse 500gr arrow.

Wes