Limb ratings.

Crossbow Hunting

Moderator: Excalibur Marketing Dude

User avatar
wildcatter
Posts: 1222
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:31 pm
Location: N.W. Ohio
Contact:

Re: Limb ratings.

Post by wildcatter »

racking up points wrote:Re: questioning someone's testing methods, I am offended because what would be inferred from your post is either I am an idiot or a liar and I am neither so consider that next time.

Your insistance that limb deflections couldn't possible equate to 15fps would mean that everyone that has a Nitemare that is shooting 350fps is either dumb, lying or doesn't have testing methods that meet your exacting standards....or you're just plain wrong.
That would be exactly what I said, since 3 of the Micros I have been around shor between 340 and 343 with a 350 grain arrow the way they came from the factory. I have never heard of any micro that only only shot 335 fps from the factory with a 350 grain arrow, not one, I never herd of any Matrix that was not capable of a little more than they were rated for. This is something other bow companies never do, is meet there claim to advertised performance, but Excalibur has with all 7 that I personally have owned.

You are now insinuating I doubted your bow shoots 350 fps. Not at all, but I will assure you if you put my limbs on that bow it will shoot well over 335 also, and probably faster than the 342 fps they do on my bow. I have witnessed bows with almost 1/8" difference in the stated power stroke in the Matrix line,,,, this is why I said you can't use your figures and other figures to come up with a determination on one set of limbs to another. A test only means anything if it the "same bow setup exactly the same way" with the only variation being the Limbs installed on that same bow!!! So tell me what set of limbs did you put on your bow that only shot 335 fps? What was the deflection rating on each? and was BH, string, and arrow exactly the same?? or are you saying there are bows out there that only shoot 350 fps with factory setup and 350 grain arrows? if so are they using the same chronograph to determine that? I am not calling you a liar, if your front end is machined a couple thousands deeper on the inside or outside of the limb pocket this could make a noticeable change by the angle the limbs are at rest, and I will assure you their tolerances that change from one riser or rail or trigger to the next, make those all favor speed on one bow and every tolerance favor less speed on another bow and you have over 6 or 7 FPS right their with the same limbs on different bows!!! These are all things that make needing to rely on test with the identical same setup cronagraph rest,,,, hell their can be a loss or gain of a couple fps from shooting from a rest and shooting from the shoulder,,, only using different limbs on that particular "EVERYTHING" have any meaning in the real world. Sorry if you thought I meant anything else.
Hunt Hard or Stay Home!
380 Mad Max, XB-30 Pro 18" ZombiesW/ 125 gr ST
330 Mad Max Custom XB-30 Pro 16" B.E.E. W/100 gr ST
Leica R-1000 - Zeiss 8X42 Conquest HD
On the Hunt for the next!!
User avatar
BrotherRon
Posts: 2178
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:47 am
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Contact:

Re: Limb ratings.

Post by BrotherRon »

colouredchameleon wrote:
BrotherRon wrote:will the limbs with a higher rating be closer to advertised speeds?
My 310 limbs have 95.5 on them, and the ones on my 330 have 104 on them.

Just curious.
Ron.
So in summary based on what little we know of when the individual numbers indicated were obtained ( before or after recalibration) . Plus the unknown of what value actually correlates with advertised speed.

Therefore the simple answers is

"It is impossible to say" .

Unless you work at Excalibur and are privy to the actual test data and or have access to the actual testing equipment.
Which traceability may be impossible to determine any ways of each individual crossbow back through the manufacturing process ( lack of serial numbers).
The only way to truly answer the question and which may or may not be absolute is to retest both crossbows at the same time again.

Other than that everything else is pure speculation

No Right or Wrong Answer just an interesting discussion.


cc
The numbers are basically there so that we as customers get a matching set of limbs to attain maximum accuracy.
And thats all that really matters.
Matrix 310 ~ Hawke XB30 Pro SR ~ TT~Plano 36" All Weather Tactical Hard Case.
Danny Miller Top Mount Quiver.
Strings by Boo ~ nchunterkw ~ 8ptbuk
Jeremiah 29:13 :thumbup:
Normous
Posts: 8266
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:04 pm
Location: Windsor, Ontario.

Re: Limb ratings.

Post by Normous »

The number are for factory use only so that each bow receives a matched pair during assembly. I have been in the limb making room 3 times in the past and witnessed the production process first hand.
EXCALFFLICTION 1991 ->>----------> 2024
Matrix 355
Huskemaw and Leupold crossbow optics.
Boo Strings
SWAT BH's and TOTA heads.
Teach Your Family How To Hunt So You Don't Have To Hunt For Your Family
User avatar
Limbs and Sticks
Posts: 3206
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:13 pm
Location: Colonial Beach, Virginia, US

Re: Limb ratings.

Post by Limbs and Sticks »

There's a lot of stuff being said here so good, some bs from self appointed experts, it is true the numbers on the limbs are matched, you wouldn't be happy with a 95 on one and a 103 on the other, the 103 is stronger and has more power.been there with the hundred+ limbs as said they do crack, with that being said they are also faster than the 95's.I'm no expert by any means but I've broke up enough equipment to know what these bows can take. there like a small block chevy endless combo's ps small block fords also
"Maxine"
1.75x5 Burris scope
Boo string
STS
Feathered easton 2020's
Magnus stingers
User avatar
wildcatter
Posts: 1222
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:31 pm
Location: N.W. Ohio
Contact:

Re: Limb ratings.

Post by wildcatter »

Thats another good point, on a 310 or 330 Matrix you may be fine with a 102 limb but on a 405 or 380 I would want a limb somewhere in the midle of the power range. Like some have said a 98 today could have been a 95 three days ago. Thats why you can't just ask for a 98 if you have one splinter, the 98 you get may be totally different than the one they marked 98 a month ago. I also have had a set of matched 99 and they shot no faster or more accurate than the set of 98 98.5 I had on the same bow, I might have had 1 fps difference, totally unnoticeable difference in performance.
Hunt Hard or Stay Home!
380 Mad Max, XB-30 Pro 18" ZombiesW/ 125 gr ST
330 Mad Max Custom XB-30 Pro 16" B.E.E. W/100 gr ST
Leica R-1000 - Zeiss 8X42 Conquest HD
On the Hunt for the next!!
User avatar
robertyb
Posts: 2846
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:35 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Limb ratings.

Post by robertyb »

I just got a new set of limbs for my M-330. I sent in my snow camo limbs which did not have any markings on them and received as requested a set of carbon blackout limbs marked 100 on each limb. I just came inside from shooting and had to turn my speed ring up from 325 to about 340 at 30 yards after zeroing at 20 yards as I was dead on at 20 but about an inch high at 30. Got dark before I could shoot further but will tomorrow.

I will say that the new limbs definitely increased my speed as I have always shot it at the 325 speed mark on the Leupold Crossbone scope before.
Wildlife Population Control Specialist
User avatar
racking up points
Posts: 1608
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:41 pm
Location: Windsor, ON

Re: Limb ratings.

Post by racking up points »

Catter,

Yes, swapping limbs only and keeping all other variables constant, (string, arrow weight, same chronograph, same BH, same riser), I saw a 10fps difference between a 24# and 33# on Micro limbs.

I don't own a Micro 335 that shoots 350 fps with 350gr and I didn't say I did either. The point I was making is that there is room for about 15fps between high and low deflection limbs. Your sample size of three micros that you've been around is not exactly an exhaustive list, but yes I concur it appears as though most Micros do get better than 340fps, but I'll also bet many don't, because mine didn't. But there are those who are are getting close to 350fps, here is where my 15fps comes from.
Leupold Optics
Boo Custom Strings
Black Eagle Arrows
Ti64.com Fastener Kits
steven in England
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 2:24 pm

Re: Limb ratings.

Post by steven in England »

I have been shooting Excalibur bows for a long time now and over the years have owned 16 bows and currently still own 9. On all of the old type bows I have owned every one of them shot the advertised speed almost exactly. The Matrix limbs seem to have a bit more tolerance and my 380 is about 7 fps down and my 310 is about 12fps down. However, the 310 speed does not bother me as I have to cock that bow by hand for our field archery rules, so the lower the better for me.
But, my 380 had a warranty issue and the new limbs that are now fitted shoot 13fps over. This gives a difference of 20fps between my old and new limbs. I think the spread of fps will be greater on the higher poundage bows and less on the lower bows between different limbs. My 380 is now only 10 fps slower than my 405. But would I want them 380 limbs on my 405 to shoot close to 420 fps, no, like others have said them limbs will have a greater chance of failing on such a high powered bow than the current 405 limbs that shoot at the advertised speed.
My Micro also shoots fast at 343fps.
From Excaliburs point of view they cannot give everyone the fastest limbs or they would be throwing out perfectly acceptable slower ones. I think as long as Excalibur speed ratings are based on the lower poundage limbs and any speed you get over the advertised speed with faster limbs is just pot luck. This way we will always receive a bow at nothing less than the advertised speed and for the main I think Excalibur try to do this.
If I was Excalibur I would leave the numbers off and just put the measured limbs into containers with the designated numbers on. Then nobody would know what they had and as long as the tiller was correct and the bow met the advertised speed everybody should be happy.
Just my opinion.
Steven
Steven in England
paulaboutform
Posts: 4970
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:32 pm
Location: Coquitlam, British Columbia

Re: Limb ratings.

Post by paulaboutform »

I'm curious, has anyone been able to compare the old numbered limbs to the new? i.e. I had a set of 106 limbs shooting 387 fps with a 350gr arrow and the new limbs I got numbered 72.5 are shooting the same 350gr arrow at 375fps? I'm just using these numbers randomly as an example for my question. Enquiring minds want to know....and btw, I agree with Rackingupoints completely, meaningless for hunting but an advantage out to 100yards + .

Paul
You're only paranoid if everyone isn't out to get you.
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
My enemy's friend is also my enemy.
L. E. Carroll
Posts: 1258
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:32 pm
Location: VANCOUVER, WA

Re: Limb ratings.

Post by L. E. Carroll »

Ron,
I know the day I bought it, I put yours through Cabelas crono. and with 350 gn. Diablo including 100gn field tip up front , I got an honest 341 fps...pretty fast as far as I was concerned. The possibility was there that the string may have been longer than it should have been with less brace height than required. I'm not sure how that condition may if at all effected the speed I got ?

I did not know about this condition at the time as that was my first experience with crossbows.. I did find out about it that night while reading owners manual.

During subsequent visits, I have noticed this to be the case with all of their Excals.

I have cautioned them about letting customers shoot them at these undesireable brace height's, and went so far as showing their employee's how to check and adjust them if necessary.

I kept yours right on the money after that... :wink:

BTW I recently got 361 fps at 360 gns with the M-355... :shock: :D
I think you told me those limbs were marked 102 ?

I do also know that in a recent conversation with Danny Miller, that he too said the higher the number the faster the limbs :wink: :D

Gene
Camo Micro 355 w/ XB30 SR Pro & TT trigger
Camo Matrix 380 W/ XB 30SR Pro & a Boo trigger
Very Nice 98 Jeep Tj
Sweet old 73 Bronco ( 2nd Owner)
Scamp tralier
paulaboutform
Posts: 4970
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:32 pm
Location: Coquitlam, British Columbia

Re: Limb ratings.

Post by paulaboutform »

I'm sorry I drudged this back up as I haven't followed this post, or read more than Peter's post. I was simply trying to figure out how the new deflection numbers relate to the old deflection numbers.

Paul
You're only paranoid if everyone isn't out to get you.
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
My enemy's friend is also my enemy.
User avatar
BrotherRon
Posts: 2178
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:47 am
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Contact:

Re: Limb ratings.

Post by BrotherRon »

Gene...
yes, if I remember correctly they were 102.
When I installed the air brakes on the 330 I noticed that they have 104 on them :wink:
Matrix 310 ~ Hawke XB30 Pro SR ~ TT~Plano 36" All Weather Tactical Hard Case.
Danny Miller Top Mount Quiver.
Strings by Boo ~ nchunterkw ~ 8ptbuk
Jeremiah 29:13 :thumbup:
User avatar
amythntr
Posts: 6994
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:26 pm
Location: T.P.R.N.J.

Re: Limb ratings.

Post by amythntr »

....as I understand it...they mean nothing more right now than the fact that with the numbers being the same for each limb, they deflected equally.

....the limbs I returned had 27 on them...the backup limbs I received have 79 on them....

Anthony :)
In a tough situation and wonder where God is; ...the Teacher is always quiet during the test.

Anthony :D

A360 (l'Assassino)
AXE 340
Scorpyd DS (w/AeroCrank AD)
GRZ2
G1-NM335(On loan)
ZS,Ex
Spits
Vixenmaster Strings
User avatar
bigrak
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:19 am
Location: S.E. Ma./ zone 17 Maine / N.E. PA.

Re: Limb ratings.

Post by bigrak »

On the 405, where on the limbs are the numbers?
Matrix 405 Mega, Hawke XB30 SR Pro
trigger tech, Dr Stirrup ' Tac Pac
BEE 20" 429gr. NAP spitfires 100gr. Ignitors
BD400 XB30 SR PRO DR. Stirrup.
New 420TD Assassin
User avatar
amythntr
Posts: 6994
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:26 pm
Location: T.P.R.N.J.

Re: Limb ratings.

Post by amythntr »

bigrak wrote:On the 405, where on the limbs are the numbers?
.... You would have to remove the limbs and look on the bottom where the limb meets the riser!

Anthony :)
In a tough situation and wonder where God is; ...the Teacher is always quiet during the test.

Anthony :D

A360 (l'Assassino)
AXE 340
Scorpyd DS (w/AeroCrank AD)
GRZ2
G1-NM335(On loan)
ZS,Ex
Spits
Vixenmaster Strings
Post Reply