Stringin Aid

[amythntr]

.....I can attest to the fact that one of your corporate retailer's couldn't give a rat's a$$ about selling Excalibur. The name is Targeteer's in Saddle Brook, NJ. First of all they are a compound bow shop...and the brand they push is Matthews....when it comes to Crossbow's they push Mission....where are the handful of Excalibur that they have there....in the corner by the exit...with a very limited supply of anything....WHY.....because they want to sell MATTHEWS.....when you tell them you shoot an Excalibur it is almost that they want to laugh at you!

.....do you guys ever visit your customers? Does Excalibur evaluate customer relationships determining that it's not worth having a customer like Targeteers...I would venture a guess that their volume is almost nil!

Anthony

[xcaliber]

We all know that guy that never reads instructions.

Actually Peter was not as much about the cost of the Stringing Aid for me it is the frustration it created especially considering it is such a essential part of owning a Excalibur.

As in my case
Discovering you need one while reading the instructions was too late. Which I suspect happens quite often.
I Left the Dealer's Shop pretty excited with my new purchase.
Drove home from Dealer to pickup gear.
Drove to a place where I could legally shoot and set up my crossbow for the first time. ( 30 kms away)
Set up shooting range ( 10 to 50 yds)
Unpack crossbow to assemble as per instruction manual only to discover just as I'm ready to take first shot ( discover Oh crap! string is into bumpers) Look it up in manual only to discover I need a special String Aid which is a must have but not included.
Tempted to shot anyway but decided was not the best choice to do so.

Packed everything up drove back ( pi$$ed ) to the dealer only to find out there are none in stock would be two week turn around to order. Called 5 different shops in my general area same story none in stock not something they carry a lot of.
It was interesting however though that they all offered to have their bow tech adjust my string as needed just bring it in for a small fee of course.
Next day turn around. ( get the picture??? )

If I was to put a cost to all the run around I was put through until I finally got a Stringing Aid two weeks later it would be easily be an extra $100 plus dollars.
""" Wonder what extra accessories I could had used that money ???

That does not include all the frustration it created plus the 2 weeks I cursed Excalibur as well as the Dealer to anyone who would listen because of the BS.

Not a good way to start off with a new customer relationship.

Especially with what turned out to be a very impressive dependable piece of equipment. Even after a 1000 plus shoots and numerous hours hunting in all kinds of weather condition.

Lots of folks would have shot the bow anyways.

[colouredchameleon]

A retailer will do what they want no matter what Excalibur asks them to do. It is you and me that can dictate how a dealer acts by comunicating with them when we are not happy.

Tom

After the fact is too late the damage is done. As to the dealer believe it he got a ear full.
What I believe has been a great discussion for the most part here points out a situation which could make the purchasing experience for the first time buyer a whole lot better. Dealers come and go but hopefully Excalibur is here to stay for a long time to come at least hopefully in my life time any ways.
(after I am gone to the great hunting grounds in the sky I really don't care . Hopefully though the toys I have now will follow me in spirit )

Some may see this as a negative discussion out to undermine Excalibur in a negative light.
However I see it differently as a positive open frank discussion of real life experiences of users of Excalibur products. It Identifies an aspect of the purchasing process for a first time user's which could be improved upon.
It is now up to Excalibur's "Peter" and his staff to determine if a workable solution is warranted or even necessary.
Too start that discussion process a few very good ideas have been put forward from the people who should matter most the consumer. The biggest disservice to Excalibur would be to say nothing as they try to increase market share.

[awshucks]

Many retailers want "acceseries" as these are usually where they can make the most money (profit).

Tom, gotta call bs on this one. How much does the store make on a $30 str aid vs a $1000 xbow?

This 'problem' only came about [aboot] w/ the advent of the Matrix/Micro series. "Usta" be able to do w/o one.

The big box retailers could give a hoot what happens when a $1k xbow leaves the store.

How many xbows does Excal sell a year? How many members are on this forum?

Most all of the difference are losers......

[xcaliber]

Many retailers want "acceseries" as these are usually where they can make the most money (profit).

Tom, gotta call bs on this one. How much does the store make on a $30 str aid vs a $1000 xbow?

This 'problem' only came about [aboot] w/ the advent of the Matrix/Micro series. "Usta" be able to do w/o one.

The big box retailers could give a hoot what happens when a $1k xbow leaves the store.

How many xbows does Excal sell a year? How many members are on this forum?

Most all of the difference are losers......

Dan, I have to disagree with that statement about the old models, once you put the Flemish on, you had to adjust brace height often for a spell, and a lot of folks chased that extra 10-15 FPS. Not looking to start an argument on this one, but in the long run I think it would save Excalibur a lot of trouble.

[archerytho]

One thing we have done is to shorten the string slightly and put more twists in the string and we are seeing less of this.[/quote]

Why not continue this and experiment to find the best length/twist configuration, sure this wont make everything perfect but seing as this is about making sure that people (that are less aware of the needs for the product) (they have less experience) dont end up harming their crossbow, im sure it wont matter to these people that the brace height may be higher than optimal. And for those with basic understanding of their product will be able to change the brace height to there preference.
Or why not ship to crossbow as you do but with the string not on the limbs.

[Ont_Excal]

Many retailers want "acceseries" as these are usually where they can make the most money (profit).

Tom, gotta call bs on this one. How much does the store make on a $30 str aid vs a $1000 xbow?

This 'problem' only came about [aboot] w/ the advent of the Matrix/Micro series. "Usta" be able to do w/o one.

The big box retailers could give a hoot what happens when a $1k xbow leaves the store.

How many xbows does Excal sell a year? How many members are on this forum?

Most all of the difference are losers......

Dan, I have to disagree with that statement about the old models, once you put the Flemish on, you had to adjust brace height often for a spell, and a lot of folks chased that extra 10-15 FPS. Not looking to start an argument on this one, but in the long run I think it would save Excalibur a lot of trouble.

xcaliber, respectfully, you don't know what you are talking about!!!!!
I have 2 exo series, a 225 lb. model and a 175 lb. model and I don't need a stringer of any kind.
We always had to adjust brace height to stay in the sweet spot to say otherwise is rubbish.

BillT in the beginning taught a technique whereby a stringer was not necessary!!
Look it up!!!

[Ont_Excal]

This 'problem' only came about [aboot] w/ the advent of the Matrix/Micro series. "Usta" be able to do w/o one.......

Dan your are absolutely correct.
Back then Kathy Troubridge could change a string without a stringing aid.

[strum]

BillT in the beginning taught a technique whereby a stringer was not necessary!!
Look it up!!!

It worked too ..I did it with my Exomax.

[paulaboutform]

What a huge pile of talk I'm reading! For the most part, retailers are oblivious to crossbows in general and especially anything regarding setting up brace height. They don't even know how to setup and tune a compound for cam sync and timing and yes, despite what was said earlier, all compounds will need to be adjusted right out of the box. Many of us have tried to educate retailers about brace height and even selling stringing aids but they're uninterested. Weather Excalibur sells them with the bow or not is up to them. I'd like to see them offered in a package.
What I would like to see is clear, concise and HUGE warning stickers and/or tags on every string and stock and riser (or at least the string ) explaining what brace height is, explaining NOT to shoot a bow with too low of a brace height and some direction or instructions on how to correct it. Also, include a photo of a stringing aid with appropriate instructions.
.....and companies are in business to make money. I don't begrudge them for that. Our job as consumers is to search out the best deal that works for us. If they can sell a two dollar product for thirty five dollars and I'm happy to pay it good for them. If I'm able to find a superior product for a third of the price, better for me.

Paul

Edit to add: and Exo series bows had to have the brace height adjusted as well so I'm not sure what people are referring to. I'd be willing to half lay on the ground to adjust it without a stringer in the field in an emergency but I'd still rather use a stringing aid.....and it's just as necessary with all series of bows with both Flemish and endless loop strings.

[Tom]

Tom, gotta call bs on this one. How much does the store make on a $30 str aid vs a $1000 xbow?

This 'problem' only came about [aboot] w/ the advent of the Matrix/Micro series. "Usta" be able to do w/o one.

The big box retailers could give a hoot what happens when a $1k xbow leaves the store.

How many xbows does Excal sell a year? How many members are on this forum?

Most all of the difference are losers......

Dan, I have to disagree with that statement about the old models, once you put the Flemish on, you had to adjust brace height often for a spell, and a lot of folks chased that extra 10-15 FPS. Not looking to start an argument on this one, but in the long run I think it would save Excalibur a lot of trouble.

xcaliber, respectfully, you don't know what you are talking about!!!!!
I have 2 exo series, a 225 lb. model and a 175 lb. model and I don't need a stringer of any kind.
We always had to adjust brace height to stay in the sweet spot to say otherwise is rubbish.

BillT in the beginning taught a technique whereby a stringer was not necessary!!
Look it up!!!

With the earlier bows, brace hight was not as exacting as these latest bows, but with the proper brace hight you "did get BETTER ACCURACY".

I have been shooting crossbows for many years (seems like forever) even before Excalibur started to make bows. I bought one of their first models in the early 80's. This was before "cocking aids, stringing aids" & other accesseries like that.

You had to learn the proper tech for stringing, cocking & uncocking the bows. I still, to this day, unstring the Relayer after every use. My dad also did the same untill I convinced him it was not neccessary. My dad, at the age of 75, still hand cocked his (and uncocked by hand) Exomag. Because after about the tenth time he was having dificulty, I finally convinced him to get a cocking aid.

Why did I tell you this, well it is because, at that same time many members were complaining that they could not cock their bows (150-175lbs) without a cocking aid and that Excalibur should include one with the bows LOL. Most of those same members would describe themselves as in good shape and strong.

Dan, sorry I have had the privilege of knowing many small business' in the past (from my fishing past) and they would all tell me that high ticket items, customers would search for the best price possible so the markup wouldnot be that high just to be price competitive. Once the high ticket item was purchased, they would purchase the accessories or come back after. The markup on accesseries could be greater just because the total $ was lower and customers would not worry as much.

Tom

[Deerstalker]

I just looked at a Matrix 355 in the BPS store in Cary, NC and the string was below the riser. The clerk or salesperson said that it was normal that way and that the string would push back when the rubber bumpers were installed. I told him that if BPS sold this CB in this condition and the customer shot it that the limbs may be damaged. I don't think that he believed me and none of the Excals CBs in this store had the right BH. It seems that the big box stores do NOT get much training on the various products for their sales folks.

[Excalibur Marketing Dude]

It seems that the big box stores do NOT get much training on the various products for their sales folks.

We spend an enormous amount of time and money training big box store sales staff. One company even has a massive training event for all of their staff that we fly to and attend. I did one this year and spent a ton of time explaining the need of setting the correct brace height. It's a constant challenge to make sure every staff member understands our products.

What's interesting is our customers often know more about how our product works than the people selling it to them. So obviously we have the information out there.

[amythntr]

What's interesting is our customers often know more about how our product works than the people selling it to them. So obviously we have the information out there. [/quote]

....Yes Peter, the above statement IS correct....through the forum and word of mouth (current owner to a new purchaser)...other than those two methods I wonder how much information gets to the consumer through the retailer or someone who "heard about Excalibur" and decides to go out and purchase one?...

....I again stress, "a simple fold over "warning tab" on the string of the new bow would alert the salesperson and the purchaser of what is needed and required for "safety concerns." " How much of an added cost would this be? I would speculate, "pennies."....again I stress "risk management."

....OBTW...while we're adding a fold over label....why not direct them to the Excalibur Forum for a world of helpful information from Excalibur owners who will answer all of their queries Excalibur!!!

Anthony

[awshucks]

It is now up to Excalibur's "Peter" and his staff to determine if a workable solution is warranted or even necessary.

Works for me....Peter is on it..... I don't really have a dog in this fight, perfectly happy w/ my '08 Y-25 and I have several stringing aids.

I remember back pre Matrix/Micro days well. I'm 6-1" 250+ lbs ad never could adj b-height w/o str aid.

Mucho respect for Kathi on many levels...