micro accuracy results with different bolt weights

[kayakyok]

Day 2 shooting my micro 335; post # 3:
So, kinda knew that knowing myself I would begin chasing accuracy well before I should, but oh well *hit happens.
Bought 6 more quills before xbow arrived because knew 4 would leave me short quickly.
Want to shoot the 100gr mechanical sold by Excalibur if possible.
I hate Orings and dental floss, but like being able to shoot FPs similar POI as the broadheads so that is why I want to go that direction (bought the BHs\practice blades ect… from the company xcalibur rebrands them from). I am also on a pretty heavy dose of blood thinners so exposed blades pose a health hazard for me.
So, the micro min weight is 350grs. With 100gr tips at minimum. Shot 100 gr FPs for a bolt weight of 350grs last night. Accurracy sucked as far as what I expected from an Xbow (Excalibur). I am an xbow newbie if you read my prior posts with ancient archery experience.
Tonight took the 100s, then added 16grs of brass washers for a total of 366grs ( tried to add 5\16 set screws from the insert end but they added too much length) , and then did 50gr FPs for a total of 400grs. So I had 9 bolts 3 of each weight.
Shot (3)4 shot groups at 20 yards with each weight.
350s sucked. Maybe 2-3” groups. 366s were better, but 1.5” maybe. 400s groups could have been completely covered by a quarter, maybe a nickel.
Did not chrony, and was shooting at a different bull every shot to not robin hood bolts. Just trying to get a feel of what was going on with my shooting.

Question #1: I have about 60 shots through xbow. I have not waxed string or serving. I have xcalibur wax. What would you do for maintenance and with what frequency?
Question #2: I really like the option of using the 100gr Excalibur mech BHs because of: a) being mechanical and shooting similar to FPs b) not using Orings. C) not having exposed blades with my health issues. I am fairly mechanically inclined and would be willing to invest some #$ into the equipment needed to remove my quill inserts and replace them with brass inserts to increase the bolt weight instead of buying custom bolts? I could google, but figured members could quickly getting me pointed in the right direction of instuctions on the web, insert diameter, where to buy inserts?

Question #3: Can you recommend a 150gr mech BR If I don’t want to go the replace insert option?
Thanks, Scott in SW PA
PS: Do I get bonus points for multiple dry fires in the “dry fire club”? Maybe a badge or pin?

[8ptbuk]

question 1 - I would recommend waxing the center serving lightly every 25/35 shots and the entire string every 100 shots or sooner if it appears dry looking and don't forget the loops !
question 2 - Call Jerry at southshore archery for inserts and other arrow supplys
questions 3 - Check out NAP FOC 170 Mechanical heads, Lots here love them

[vixenmaster]

# 3 ? The NAP FOC are 170 gr, i don't knowed of any 150 gr Mech. but i haven't searched fer them either.

# 2 ? Pullin inserts are hit n miss wid carbons. I have used boilin watwr to soften the glue N used field pt wid pliers. Sometimes the carbon will get hard after its dried couple months later n split on you.

# 1 ? Jus put abit of wax on string when it gets dry or frizzes up more than you like to see,

[racking up points]

The NAP FOC is a 3" cut, 170gr head, the blades are not exposed, and you wouldn't need to get brass inserts. However, you are on the low side in terms of KE to use a 3" expandable IMO. Most people do band or double band their expandable BHs out of a crossbow and for two reasons:
1-a crossbow release is believed to be more violent and sudden than a vertical bow, (whether or not that is true is a debate for another thread).
2-if an expandable BH does deploy prematurely and the blades do not clear the stirrup, you have a recipe for a wayward arrow

[amythntr]

....I have a couple of comments:

1. Very interesting and not surprising that you are finding that the heavier arra of 400g is shooting the best out of the 335....I have learned fairly quickly that speed sells the bow but accuracy is what really counts even if sacrificing speed , and

2. do be careful with the dry fires with the 335. Inspect those limbs carefully. The Micro limbs have appeared to be less forgiving than its wider wingspan relatives. Stop shooting if you encounter any kind of splitting or delamination.
If all is well, then carry on!

X2 on what others have said!

Anthony

[Chefrific]

I did not have good accuracy when I tested the FOC's with the standard quill. Arrow flight was erratic at 20 yards and that just got worse as I went out to 30-40 etc.
I'm no expert, but I don't think the quills have enough spine for that head.

I also do not understand why Excalibur sends you arrows with 150 grain points. Yes I know that they are trying to sell boltcutters, but they also make a 100 grain mechanical. The vast majority of broadheads on the market are 100-125 grain.
My quills would shoot 125 grains okay, and I was scared to shoot 100 grain from a quill due to the low weight.... I already lost one set of limbs.

Upgrading to better arrow, built to shoot 100-125 grain heads made all the difference in my micro. I now shoot 100 grain heads with pinpoint accuracy out to 50 yards and I have a vast selection of broadheads to choose from and play around with.

[StormDragon]

If possible get yourself some Black Eagle Executioners cut down to the length you want and put in 110 Gr brass inserts that way you dont have to go with 150 gr heads.

I was fortunate to get some .003 Black Eagles already fletched up with a high right helical and ready to go with 110 gr inserts from BOO.

I had them cut down to their current 15 1/2 in length and with the 110 Gr insert, 100 gr field point/broadhead, 39 Gr Ignitor nock and blazers plus the arrow itself they come out to roughly 405 Gr.

I also have .001 Black Eagles the same length and weight as the .003 ones. I use these for hunting and the .003 for target shooting. The .003 work and fly great I just happened to have the .001 already from another bow so i used them.

[Sam, just Sam...]

To be honest, I have never even shot the stock quills in my micro. They are still in the little clip holder that they came in. I would say that they seem pretty light, i just got some 125 grain muzzy small game tips for them and will attempt to blow them up on some squirrels or raccoons .

I bought 12 arrows from Wyvern and I love them (you would think I work for them, but I don't) First shot with 100 grain field point was 2 inches high and about 1 in left, a few clicks and at 20 yards I can't seem to miss if I tried. I then adjusted for 30 and 40 with the speed ring (mine is right under 330 for the stock scope). I then got some Muzzy tips from Dicks (I had a coupon) At 40 yards I am shooting maybe 2" groupings, I don't actually group my shots since I would ruin arrows, and they are not cheap. I shoot one, go get it, shoot another, go get it. Etc... I have my rig set for opening day (I'm going out for early doe since I have a short season for travel) All that being said, I believe that my arrow weight is right at 390 (according to David Wilkins) they shoot great and I would have no qualms about shooting anything 40 yards and in.

Remember aim small, miss small!

[kayakyok]

OK, based on the input I ordered new arrows from Wyvern. On his site there is arrows made up for the micro which made my decision process simpler.
South Shore gave me LOTS of options to customize exactly what I want but I am not there yet knowledge-wise to make educated decisions. From Wyvern's:
"Gold Tip Swift PRO series arrows, cut them to 16.5” and assemble them with 110grn brass inserts, aluminum flat nocks, and high helical white Blazer vanes and 100grn field points. These softer, .001” straight arrows are perfect with the short power stroke of the Matrix 335 bow."
Hoping these will allow me to use the 100gr mech BHs. I liked the looks of the FOC BHs but from what I'm hearing the micro may be a bit slow for them and I probably would need new arrows instead of the factory quills anyways.

So, new arrows coming to use 100gr points, factory quills with 150gr points for shooting times that I wouldn't want to use my "good" arrows.

Question of the day: Am I reading Chefrific's advice correctly and I should stay away from shooting the factory quills with 100gr points (350gr total) as shooting that light of arrow (minimum recommended weight) may harm the xbow?

Thanks Guys! I'm finding this forum very useful!

[wildcatter]

I found the Executioners to have to light a spine for a heavy front setup. They work and shoot well with 92 grain inserts and 100 grain points out to 40 yards, as good as you are saying you get with quills at 20. But they deteriorate out past that.

I am never happy with good enough, I have spent 100's of shots and several different arrow builds finding my best arrows for hunting!! I have found the Spynal Tapps with the front bushing, and a 85 grain insert and 100 grain heads, I have the best flight out to 60 yards, as far as I have shot it, and will rival my 380's with these arrow!! For hunting I also run Firenock lighted D2 nock's. My total arrow weight is 412 grains and am shooting 312 fps, and have over 20% Foc.

Like racking up points said,,,, KE is the key to determining your best broadhead for full penetration!!! So with the Micro I am going with 100 grain Slick tricks on a 412 grain arrow @ 310 fps gives me 90 ft lb KE!! 4 more lb ft KE than the 350 grain factory arrow gives me, and way more than I need to penetrate any deer out past 40 yards, especially using the 1" fixed blades of the 4 blade Slick trick's!! More energy and the speed I gave up isn't even noticable out to 50 yards, and it will stick 1" bulls every time in no wind at that range. The other thing the heavier arrow does is it is less affected by the wind than the lighter arrows,,, much more important at 40 or 50 yards than 25 fps!!!

[Sam, just Sam...]

OK, based on the input I ordered new arrows from Wyvern. On his site there is arrows made up for the micro which made my decision process simpler.
South Shore gave me LOTS of options to customize exactly what I want but I am not there yet knowledge-wise to make educated decisions. From Wyvern's:
"Gold Tip Swift PRO series arrows, cut them to 16.5” and assemble them with 110grn brass inserts, aluminum flat nocks, and high helical white Blazer vanes and 100grn field points. These softer, .001” straight arrows are perfect with the short power stroke of the Matrix 335 bow."
Hoping these will allow me to use the 100gr mech BHs. I liked the looks of the FOC BHs but from what I'm hearing the micro may be a bit slow for them and I probably would need new arrows instead of the factory quills anyways.

So, new arrows coming to use 100gr points, factory quills with 150gr points for shooting times that I wouldn't want to use my "good" arrows.

Question of the day: Am I reading Chefrific's advice correctly and I should stay away from shooting the factory quills with 100gr points (350gr total) as shooting that light of arrow (minimum recommended weight) may harm the xbow?

Thanks Guys! I'm finding this forum very useful!

I like the Wyvern arrows. Shoot them a few times and let us know what you think. I have such a tight group at 40. I have not shot farther since my backyard is only 40 yards to the fence! I might go to a 3D and shoot farther. I would go heavier for about 10 reasons, easier on the limbs, quieter, overall better performance, more retained kinetic energy, supposedly more accurate, and a smattering of other reasons too!

[kayakyok]

I'll post a head-to-head from the Wyvern and the quills and also chrony.
Hee hee already happy tonight shot between 1\2" and 1" 3 shot groups @ 20 yards with 150s on the quills. Coworker with a 10 point laughed today when I told him my goal was 2-3" groups @ 40. Think I am on my way. Next goal is moving beyond 20 yards for me. I like shooting as much as hunting. Do our own beef\hog\deer butchering so the xbow is just another way to get done what is going to happen. hope it gets me a few more hours in the woods as with work\life time is tight in the fall. Do predict the xbow replaces the flintlock for late season here in PA. Xbow has a higher rate of fire and accuracy so far as compared to my wish-boom.
Did order air brakes as the bow has a twang. Not sure from what I'm reading how much they will help. I shoot around my mules and interesting to watch them crouch\spin\tense when I shoot from the "twang" if they are within 20 yards and didn't see me setting up to shoot. They are getting used to it so the experiment is probably over. I can shoot high power rifles within 20-30 yards of them and they never even flinch because they are used to it (if they see the gun).

[wapster]

Kayakyok,
I think you are underestimating the abilities of that xbow. Throw a couple sandbags on a table and you will see what its really capable of.

[wildcatter]

Here is a movie I did after adding all the stuff to my bow to quiet it, besides a heavy arrow there is nothing done to the bow to slow it down besides the 40 strand Flemish,,,,, they can be practiclly silenced, I just need to talk to trigger Tech and see if I can get rid of the claw noise snapping against the top of the box,,,,,, There is absolutely no twang!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcc-MX4JrbY

[Boomer81]

Just wanted to chime in, my mag340 shoots the quills with the 170gr FOC just as well as my 150 field points that came with my matrix arrows. I have yet to chrono it tho but going by the speed ring i am just over 310fps..