Hawke XB30 Pro vs Excal Twilight DLX

[tomcat]

Want to hear opinions from anyone who has used both specifically in regards to "low light" comparisons.
Currently I have Twilights on my 2 primary Excals and depend upon them to make long(40+) shots at the last mins of light. This is critical for me every year, and although the Twilight's extend that time beyond the Shadow and Tact zones, it's medicore glass quality and the internal "glow" of it's lighted reticle even on lowest setting, make it effectiveness proportionally marginal as range increases in all but the most open backgrounds.

I've used an older XB-30 which had the circle reticle and it simply wasn't for me. I thought it was better than the Twilight's clarity during the day, but hated the reticle and didn't get a chance to use it at dusk/dawn.

With the advent of losing the "circle" reticle concept and advertised improved low light optics, I thought it would be worth revisiting now that the circle is gone.

I'm not interested in any other scopes such as:
Zeiss XB75, Crossbones, Vortex XBR, Nikon Bolt etc...
I have looked at all of them and none of them are for me until the Zeiss gets an illuminated reticle.

For those of you that have used both at dusk/dawn...
1. Is the clarity of the XB30 PRO better than the Twilight? If so, by how much?
2. Does the lighted reticle hamper the target's visibility when on it's lowest setting like the Twilight it's lens glow?

[robertyb]

I ran a thread about like this one the other day on AT site except was asking about the Hawke XB1 SR. I got nothing but good remarks and reports on it. In fact several of the guys recommended it over the XB Pro. All said it has pretty good glass for the price range.

I was told that Wyvern has the best price also but I saw a deal on a Leupold Crossbones and jumped on it as I really don't need illumination.

[tomcat]

The stands I hunt demand illuminated crosshairs because the backdrop is almost black in th early bow season and the crosshairs all but vanish despite being able to see the deer well enough to shoot. Even with Bushnell Elites during gun season in the same stands, I can clearly see the deer, but the fine crosshairs again become a challenge for me. I even have some Bushnells with Firefly reticle and they do work pretty good except the center of the crosshairs where they intersect don't glow and are real fine..again they vanish against dark background.

The Twilight's glass is nowhere as clear as these high end scopes so the deer isn't as visible to me although I could easily put the correctly ranged aim point(triangle) over the shadowy figure of a deer amidst the Red/green glow of the reticle(even as low as it goes it still is very faint and impacts the hazy target in addition to the lack of clarity) and hope it's the "buck" I want in that last couple of minutes of legal light.

I just need that marginal edge of the reticle having no glow to the rest of the lens when on it's lowest level and just a bit better clarity to sharpen the deer/target's image for a couple minutes longer. Last year I had a buck walk by me at 35 yds and I couldn't see it with enough clarity to be sure it was the one I wanted so I let it walk...only to review my game camera that eve and confirm it in fact was the one I was after...
Here we only get one buck tag a year...and where I hunt they move at the last light except for about 3 days of the rut a year and this situation seems to happen to me at least once or twice a season to warrant me to upgrade my scope even further...
Yes the Twilight and it's small illuminated aim points do get me close to making that shot, but I need just a smidge better clarity AND a little less ambient glow when using the illumination on it's lowest barely visible setting.

Those 2 tings will enable me to take that shot this year...

[robertyb]

I carry Swarovski 8.5X42 EL binoculars to identify what I am looking at. If it is light enough to shoot I can definitely identify him with them. Probably way after it is illegal to shoot also.

[tomcat]

I carry Swarovski 8.5X42 EL binoculars to identify what I am looking at. If it is light enough to shoot I can definitely identify him with them. Probably way after it is illegal to shoot also.

I might try that this year as I have some really nice binoculars.

[deerman41]

I carry Swarovski 8.5X42 EL binoculars to identify what I am looking at. If it is light enough to shoot I can definitely identify him with them. Probably way after it is illegal to shoot also.

I might try that this year as I have some really nice binoculars.

I have Nikon monarch 8x42 that you can just about see in dark with. Hawke XB30 as good in low light as my leupold & Swarovski rifle scopes.

[robertyb]

I carry Swarovski 8.5X42 EL binoculars to identify what I am looking at. If it is light enough to shoot I can definitely identify him with them. Probably way after it is illegal to shoot also.

I might try that this year as I have some really nice binoculars.

The $$$ I spent on those binos hurt at the time but now I consider it to be the best $$$ I have spent on hunting equipment. Good binos are a MUST have...

[tomcat]

Bringing the binocs would definitely help me identify the deer and decide if he's my shooter or not. And then even if the deer is hazy, I'll know that it's the deer I want. Even with my Twilights now I could've barely made these shot(s) but the big problem was I didn't have enough clarity/resoloution to identify the buck's antlers at 30-35yds.
Regardless if the XB30 Pro's give me that additional clarity or not, you guys have just given me a solution that I've never really thought of...
Awesome!
I have some nice binoculars but I do need to upgrade my rangefinder this year(mine is going on 10 yrs old or more cant remember when I bought) and maybe I can find a rangefinder with some low light capability so I can make 1 device do both rather than having 2 things around my neck..

[Bones]

You have a solution it look's like ? I just received a pro from wyvern ( he doe's have great price's ) although , I prepared myself and took a bath on our exchange rate ? It's far clearer and brighter than the sr's I have. The variable rheostat vs the standard 5 position is nice , only red reticle's though . The numbered increment's are a nice touch as well, no counting down ! Just waiting now to get out and site in with it.

Barrie

[Onetimeonly x-->]

Maybe off topic a little? I use the XB30 and always used the green setting thinking it was better?? Going back to the vertical bow single pin sight. Wrong for me the red works better at see your game or target "much" better. That is on the lowest setting. No excessive glow in the glass...

[tomcat]

FYI - The Navy did a study and Red light impacts your "night vision" the least. In fat you were supposed to wear red goggles around for 1/2 hour prior to assuming "lookout watch" to accelerate your transition to night vision.
IME, looking back and forth between green crosshairs and darkness on my Twilights & Bushnell Red Dot scopes(with green) takes longer by far to recover your eye dilation/focus on objects in the dark.

[tomcat]

Received my XB30 Pro's yesterday and decided to compare them side by side at dusk against my Twilight(s), Tact Zone and some Quality Riflescopes(Bushnell Elite 3200 & 4200's) in low light.
For all comparisons I tested them on 3x as that's where speed of my bows fall into on them.
After about an hour of looking through all of these as the sun went down I can tell you without a doubt the XB30 Pro's clarity was waaay better than all 3 of my Twilights and although not as good as either 3-9x40 Elite 3200 or 4200 it was on par with my 2-7x32 Elite 3200 and IMHO I could clearly see objects with enough definition until 15 mins after last light with each when set on 3x. This makes sense considering their objective size is comparable and smaller than 2-9x40's.
Although both Elite 3-9x40s were clear as a bell when I left 1/2 hr after last light(additional 15 mins over XB30/Elite 2-7x32) they (as well as the Elite 2-7x32) wouldn't be really "useable" against a dark backdrop because their "fine"crosshairs vanish. The Twilight becomes hazy or shadowy starting about 5 mins prior to last light and turning on it's illumination at it's lowest setting compounds the problem with it's internal ambient glow that literally takes another 5-10 mins off it's useful time(varies with scope). FWIW- I have 3 of these and 1 of them has a virtually undetectable amount of ambient red glow, 1 is not quite as good and the last one is simply bad enough it makes the scope useless 15 mins prior to last light.
The Tact Zone in addition to becoming hazy starting at sunset also becomes useless 15mins(or more) prior to last light because not only is it's clarity lacking, it has the worst ambient glow of all 4 Excal scopes. It is even worse than the Shadow zones I had(and they had better clarity as well).

Turning on the XB30 Pro's reticle at dusk almost brought me tears of joy..There is simply NO detectable ambient glow to wash out the view/target except when the intensity is cranked to Maximum(which must be for day hunting because it's ridiculous bright and could be seen looking at birds in the clear sky with no problem). The aim points are un-intrusive and the 20 yd larger crosshair commands your attention unless you are looking for a another range. The smaller + symbols of the 30-60 yd markers appear as dots on quick point and if actually concentrating on aiming the intersection of each + becomes useable for pinpoint accuracy.

As much as like Excals center dot and triangle reticle for hunting, I believe this is just as good in a hunting environment but also provides the ability for additional precision on targets that non-hunters would desire.
I can't get over how perfectly unintrusive the reticle is even beyond last light and even with front lens cover closed is undetectable.
This factor alone enables you to leverage the quality optics to it's fullest capability and get an additional 15-20 mins of hunting over my best Twilight and a solid 1/2 hr over my worst one or Tact Zone.

Another point I want to make is the Twilight/Tact zones are 1 click=1/2"@20yds which stinks when your rig shoots accurate enough to be in between clicks especially at 60 yds and beyond..
The XB30Pro is 1 click =1/2MOA which is approximately 1/8" per click at 25yds makes a LOT more sense ..

I want to thank everyone on here for their input, and especially David @ Wyvern Creations for his time and advice. He really knows his products and has grip on the industry as to what guys want and need.
I just added him to short list of approved merchants..the other 2 are Danny Miller & and South Shore Jerry.

[tomcat]

A couple more helpful points:
The lens caps are awesome! They are a machined aluminum flip open style that should be standard on ALL scopes. I just like them and they fold completely flat unlike the Butler creek plastic ones which always break.

I mounted these with Redfield Aluminum 30mm Med Rings 47323(about $15) and they are as low as you can go(1/8" clearance between rail and scope body). This is the same setup I used for my Twilights/Tact Zones. They are good quality rings that don't move and haven't left any ring marks on my scopes. I torque the caps@20in# and crossbolts@40in# with my Wheeler torque wrench.

Before mounting, I weighed the XB30 Pro with Caps but no rings at 16.9oz and a bare Twilight without caps or rings at the exact same weight of 16.9oz on my digital postal scale. The Xb's weight is rearward and although the same weight it noticeably balances the bow better.

[DMc]

Very nice writeup! That was much appreciated, thanks.