My Matrix 380 appears slow..... No More!! ;-)

[GrassyKnoll]

[Shoot a 380 through s chromy with a 400 grain arrow and see how much you beat 340. Won't be by much. [/quote]

The above partial post is from another thread. It peaked my interest so I dug out the chronograph for a little speed test.. I'm posting it here in a seperate thread so that the bow auction thread does not move off topic....

Funny you mention shooting a 380 with a 400 grain arrow..

I was chronoing my bows last night.. Chrono used is a Pro Chrono with the light kit..
Two Micro 335's and 1 Matrix 380.
The same arrow was used for all three bows.. A BEE shaft with 3 Blazer vanes, a Lumenok, 110 grain brass insert and a 100 grain field point for a total arrow weight of 402 completed grains.

All three bows have a Danny Miller flemish string on them and brace height is 1/4" off the bumpers..

My results are as follows:

1. Nightmare Micro shot the 402 grain arrow at 314, 315,315..

2. Nightmare Micro dipped in Realtree AP Snow shot the 402 grain arrow at 315, 314, 315..

3. Matrix 380 shot the 402 grain arrow 344, 345, 345....

So basically the Micro's speeds make sense to me because I'm at 402 grain arrow and the Micro speed rating of 335 is with a 350 arrow. So I'm basically 52 grains heavier in total arrow weight and that translates to a lose of 17.3 fps and add in the flemish string is a tad bit heavier, I feel the Micro's are on the money for their speed rating..

However:

The Matrix 380 is only shooting 345 fps with the same 402 grain arrow.. The 380 is also factory tested with a 350 arrow to achieve the 380 fps.. So we are again shooting an arrow 52 grains over the advertised speed arrow of 350 grains.. But when you do the math, it does not add up..

402-350 = 52.... 52 grains divided by 3 ( 3 grains seems to be the amount of grains to equate to a 1 fps loss in speed ) is only a loss of 17.3 fps

Advertised Matrix 380 speed is 380 fps with a 350 grain arrow..
My Matrix 380 is only shooting 345 fps!! hmm

So: 402 grain arrow - 350 grain arrow = 52 grain over the speed arrow..

52 grains divided by 3 = 17.3 fps loss.......... but that does not add up to the 345 fps the Matrix is shooting... Even if you round up from 17.3 fps to 20 fps loss the Matrix should be shooting 360 fps... Somehow I'm upside down by an additional loss of 15 more fps in lost speed.. For a grand total of 35 fps loss in speed...

Yeah I know accuracy kills and I also know that if I deviate outside of the factory test parameters, I should expect a loss of speed but really that much? I expected the 20 fps loss but certainly not 35 fps loss from a 52 grain difference and a flemish string ( and really how much speed is the flemish string costing, maybe 5 fps )....Just seems like a lot to loose, considering the Micro's are on par....

All thoughts and opinions are welcome..

Thanks,
Ed

[bob watkins]

peter just said in a recent post if your not satisfied with your bow performance contact him . but this is my biggest gripe with the 380 and i have 2 of them both have had limb changes now in the 360 range 400 gr arrow get new limbs jmo

[8ptbuk]

Most 380 shoot around 360 fps with 400 gr arrow .

[SEW]

I just chrono'd my 380,400 & 405.

My M380 got 360'/sec with a 399.4g arrow, 373 with 353g arrow. Currently, my M380 only has DrS bumpers with a factory string lightly touching.
Incidentally, BD400 was 362/382 (can't explain why one only went up 2'/sec but other 9'/sec), heavily accessorized M405 got 363/380 but had F10 string/string silencers.

[Kegbelly]

peter just said in a recent post if your not satisfied with your bow performance contact him . but this is my biggest gripe with the 380 and i have 2 of them both have had limb changes now in the 360 range 400 gr arrow get new limbs jmo

^^^ This IMO is your best advice. If you are not happy with the performance of your 380, I also suggest you contact Excalibur. Mine has been 100% reliable, and it's fast and wicked accurate.

[L. E. Carroll]

My 380 was built using a stock rail and matrix 380 stock, with a modified 405 riser and a set of the newer 2016 in house blem limbs. ( Outfitted w/ 1.5 x 5 Hawke XB30 SR, cheek rest, D.Miller BB's, Vixenmaster flemish string, camo Munch Mount and ADF )

I had thought, and been just fine with the assumption that it was slower than most 380's due to what I consider a more improved riser with the slight radius at the end of each limb pocket. ( in an attempt to relieve a bit of stress at the sharp outer edge of the pocket ? )

I just went and checked my records.. a 3 shot average thru my chrony @ 3' from the screen gave me an average of 353.57 fps. @ 403 grains. Your's is very close to that (which would satisify me).

just the conclusions from my tests for what they may be worth?

Gene

[GrassyKnoll]

Thanks guys for the input.... I've decided to contact the company and have it addressed.... 344 fps just seems too low..

[amythntr]

....Hopefully I will be able to get out in the next couple of weeks and be able to do the same....I will most likely contact Peter if I obtain similar results!

Anthony

[GrassyKnoll]

Upper 350-360'ish I feel is acceptable with my setup given my arrow weight and flemish string.. the bow is a tack driver, but I do want the speed too, if it should be there..

[nchunterkw]

I don't think you are losing much due to a DM Flemish vs a stock DM EL string. Both are same strand count and same material. Wt. will be close.

[JUDGE]

Do you really thing 20-30 fps , is ever going to make any difference .

[GrassyKnoll]

Do you really thing 20-30 fps , is ever going to make any difference .

No, I honestly don't.. I use a range finder when I hunt and am extremely happy with the accuracy from my 380 and would not fault it in any way except that if others are reporting speeds 15-20 fps faster than mine with very similar arrow weights and setups, then I need to question why am I loosing an addition, on average, 15 fps slower over other Matrix 380 users.. It becomes the "BAR" or average on which to determine the performance of the product and if it under performs we need to find out why.... at least I do anyway...

Speed sells and it's not cheap, so if a 380 or any bow that we pay a premium for fails to reach at least a minimum, there might be an issue with that particular item.. Not saying the whole line is bad or anything like that , but you or I just might have one that slipped through the line, so to speak...

Not trying to pick an argument or bash, but I need to measure the performance of the things I pay for, meaning I want what I paid for.... or better, not less...

Excalibur is my brand of choice for multiple reasons, however these bows are under incredible stress when cocked and fired. So I feel by testing my bows speed it kind of gives me an idea if my gear is up to par or am I at the beginning stages of a failure of some kind…

[racking up points]

I agree with everything you said, GK, but the last part. Higher deflection limbs will be more prone to splintering, (from my experience with the previous gen. of limbs), and that's all you'll get if you ask for more speed in a warranty return, (higher deflection limbs). So by all means, get them, but they might not be more dependable. Slower limbs are not an indicator of future failure, in my experience anyway.

[GrassyKnoll]

I agree with everything you said, GK, but the last part. Higher deflection limbs will be more prone to splintering, (from my experience with the previous gen. of limbs), and that's all you'll get if you ask for more speed in a warranty return, (higher deflection limbs). So by all means, get them, but they might not be more dependable. Slower limbs are not an indicator of future failure, in my experience anyway.

Good point and makes sense. However I took my limbs off already to send back for warranty.. My limb deflection #'s or whatever the sharpie numbers reflect are labeled 91.5 on both limbs... in case anyone was wondering what they are...

I have to replace them because it will just eat at me until I change them....

However, once I get the replacements, I'm going to try to avoid the chrono because.... well you know.....lol

[janesy]

Wait. Your not going to test the new limbs?