Heavy Arrow

[snuffbox]

I wonder if you guys could help me out here.
My question is what is the heaviest you can practically make an arrow from commonly available components .
The reason I ask is there are some in our society say we would use very heavy bows and slow them down with heavy arrows,this could mean extra damage to targets.
So to Knock 20 fps off would require extra 100gns of arrow weight.

[vixenmaster]

Yes heavier arrows will penetrate more. Alum. are easy jus stuff smaller shaft inside, example 2216 stuff wid 2016. Carbons heavier inserts n set screws of diff lengths add weight quickly

[Hunt it]

See my recent thread on Heavy arrow findings BD 400, I just moved it up for you. Double shafts are easiest way. The CE 4000 shafts fit inside the Black Eagles perfectly. I'm working on a heavy 20" arrow to play with and will advise once get to shoot them. The 545gr 18" shafts flew amazingly well.

[paulaboutform]

Hi Paul, depending on your configuration you may be able to heavy up your shafts by regular components without slugging them. Example; 60 grains is approximately all you should need to lose 20 fps. If you're using 92gr brass inserts switch to 110gr brass inserts to add 18 grains more. If you're using 100gr field points switch to 150gr. Just by changing those two things you'll sacrifice just over 20 fps. When slugging shafts, the black eagle carnivore arrows are the ones that fit into the zombie shafts perfectly. However, there is a skinnier brass insert you'll need to fit into the carnivore slugs. A 12 hour, two part epoxy is a good way to go for this. Do not use the quick cyano based adhesives because you'll lose arrows when trying to seat the slugs. Also, the slugs should go right to the front end of the shaft, not pushed back by the original zombie insert as that creates a weak point. Finally, the clubs saying any of the arrows are harder on targets is simply FALSE! Don't let them suck you into their nonsense Paul. It's been proven time and again that there is no difference to a target shot with a compound, recurve or longbow or compound bow.

Paul

[sproulman]

Yes heavier arrows will penetrate more. Alum. are easy jus stuff smaller shaft inside, example 2216 stuff wid 2016. Carbons heavier inserts n set screws of diff lengths add weight quickly

You can buy heavy inserts made by person from italy for alum arrows so arrows weight over 500 grs..I used to talk to him a lot LONG ago and still have his info..In fact I have his plum heavy inserts somewhere here if I can find them from 1999..He used to do as you said mike arrow inside arrow but his invention of heavy front insert he stopped suggesting that..

I wonder what i did with his inserts i think they were made of stainless not sure onthat..

[nchunterkw]

Gold Tip Nitro Pro shafts and Easton FMJ shafts are both 14GPI compared to 9GPI for the Black Eagle shafts. With GT they have a weight system so you can add weights to the inserts to get almost any desired weight.
I easily made 500gr 16" arrows last year for my Micro using only standard components and 125gr BHs. No slugging etc. required

[steven in England]

Hi Paul,
On your post you are not clear if you want to make heavy bolts or if you are having issues at your club with non crossbow users causing problems?
If it is the later, I know where you are coming from as I have the same issues at our club. Most of my club is made up of longbow and recurve bows and these people hate crossbows with a passion. We get blamed for target damage, theft, poaching ,if its raining it is our fault and so on. As you know we cannot exceed 300fps, it can't be a compound crossbow and the bow must be cocked by hand without any aids. So under these rules it is very difficult to hand cock a bow capable of shooting 300fps with a heavy arrow. Now these rules keep people out of our sport. And if rope cockers came in the crossbow haters say we wil shoot M405 with super heavy arrows to keep under 300fps and smash the targets. It is very easy to get very very heavy bolts and it gives the haters more ammunition. Trouble is, longbow, recurve, compound and crossbow users never stick together, the same as pistol, rifle and shotguns users don't and we end up losing everything because of it. I know I have gone on a rant and could have mistaken your post, but at least it is off my chest.
The funny thing is when I take my bows they always ask how heavy is the draw weight and no matter which bow I have I say oh about 100 pound. If I were to tell them my M310 was really 200 pound they would through pure ignorance say it must shoot 500fps and has a mile range. But, as we all know it fits our 300fps rule well, it is just a bit of a pig to cock without a rope cocker.

[sproulman]

Steve, I was one of Crossbow haters for few reasons all hunting related issues..At our club most dislike crossbow because of noise and they are afraid arrow will hit someone.The noise[snap] scares them they think bow is shooting 600fps....

never heard of target damage or theft at our club ....mostly they do not like all new hunters that now are in woods do to crossbow..YES road hunting outlawing during daylight hrs has tripled do to crossbow in archery season..They lean out window and shoot very easy to get deer with crossbow here in pa road hunting..we call poaching night hunting..Crossbow is only used to do that at camps at night with porch light on ,road hunting at night they use 22 mag cal rifle..

[snuffbox]

I may have to be explaining to our committee the hassle involved in making super heavy arrows to slow the bows down.
As things are as Steve in England says we have a 300 fps limit and are not allowed to use a cocking aid.
If you have a disability you can have a dispensation to use a cocking aid but then you have to shoot non competetively which I find unfair on those with a disability.
I'm putting in a proposal to correct this injustice .
Or at least allow the crossbow section to have a vote on it.
An objection that may be thrown up is a disabled person would go and buy a matrix 380 and then slow it down by 80 fps.
At 5gns per 1fps I reckon that would require an extra 400 gns of arrow weight over the 350 recommended arrow weight

[steven in England]

If you put a proposal in what you maybe could do is put a proposal on a maximum weight of the bolt as well. At least then a user would not be able to shoot a real fast bow with very heavy bolts as they would be limited to 300fps with a certain weight.
I am will you on this and will vote with your proposal. It is not only disabled, it is teens and lots of women lose out because they cannot cock the bows without a rope cocker.

[amythntr]

.... can someone put together some numbers of what FOC we should be aiming to achieve for different arrow length's and different configurations to obtain the best accuracy out to let's say 60-70 yards? If it has been done and if it is not too much problem!

This whole discussion has been very interesting to say the least!

Anthony

[snuffbox]

Anthony.
Have a go with this

https://www.goldtip.com/calculators.aspx

Hope your well my friend

[amythntr]

Anthony.
Have a go with this

https://www.goldtip.com/calculators.aspx

Hope your well my friend

Likewise my friend....I am familiar with the GT Calculator....I was always under the assumption that too high of a FOC was not a good thing...hence my query!

Best regards to you and the Mrs.

Anthony

[Hi5]

Rules are supposed to have a reason.

So, what the heck is the rule behind requiring a slower arrow? Is it to take away the benefit of faster arrows, such as less wind deflection? Take away a flatter trajectory? If so, surely that would only apply during competition?

Heavier arrows should penetrate more than lighter arrows. That likely means a shorter target life. Depending on how many more shooters participate because of being allowed to shoot crossbow, the extra membership in the club may offset the cost of earlier target replacement.

[sproulman]

I may have to be explaining to our committee the hassle involved in making super heavy arrows to slow the bows down.
As things are as Steve in England says we have a 300 fps limit and are not allowed to use a cocking aid.
If you have a disability you can have a dispensation to use a cocking aid but then you have to shoot non competetively which I find unfair on those with a disability.
I'm putting in a proposal to correct this injustice .
Or at least allow the crossbow section to have a vote on it.
An objection that may be thrown up is a disabled person would go and buy a matrix 380 and then slow it down by 80 fps.
At 5gns per 1fps I reckon that would require an extra 400 gns of arrow weight over the 350 recommended arrow weight

When PGC here in pa said,IF YOU ARE DISABLED YOU CAN GET CROSSBOW PERMIT doctors offices were flooded with hunters saying they are Disabled even they they used a jack hammer at work ,lifted 125 pds daily ,used recurve bow and compound bow all said they are DISABLED to get permit to use Crossbow ..Hunters tripled using Crossbow ...