Rethinking broadheads

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SEW
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Rethinking broadheads

Post by SEW » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:23 pm

Like the vast majority of us, I came to xbows via vbows. I was an equal opportunity user splitting my time between traditional recurves(Black Widow then Palmer) and then Pearson->Oregon ->Hoyt compounds. As a result, much of my thoughts concerning arrow flight, especially fixed broadheads vs expandibles, has been influenced by arrows that flex significantly on launch. Ideally, Xbow arrows flex is negligible which greatly reduces the negative effect that a fixed blade has.
After my bear fiasco (from using an inappropriate expandible broadhead - FOC), I revisited fixed broadheads. Results below:
BD400 - 20" STs, Blazers, flat plastic nocks,92g inserts,125g Griz Tricks(4-blade, 1 1/4"). Close to accuracy of FOC. Getting appx 2" 3-shot groups @ 90 yds, 1" @ 60 yds.
M380 - formerly used FOC. Using 18" Zombies, Blazers, 26g insert, 175 Xbow Trick. About same accuracy as above.
M405 - 18" STs, 50g insert, Blazers, FOCs: slightly more accurate than any of the above.

For a Xbow, I find less advantage with Expandibles than with vbows . I'll likely stay with FOCs but will probably keep the Griz Tricks in the inventory. My FOC usage will only be with a lot of energy and deer only.

Just some thoughts.

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DuckHunt
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Re: Rethinking broadheads

Post by DuckHunt » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:51 pm

Well, I've come full circle this week rethinking broadheads myself. My ExoMax has never shot fixed blades well. I've tried everything within reason. So my first 8 years with a crossbow was with a dozen different types of expandibles. The only times an expandible failed I had failed to take precautions that could have prevented it like banding spitfires, changing old bands or even double banding. They aren't foolproof, but you can make them so.

Enter my Micro 335. It shoots fixed blades well. With a proper arrow I think it will shoot anything well. So I've been using Wasp Drone or G5 Stryker fixed heads and both shoot great. Earlier this week I fired a near perfect shot on a doe at a mere 12 yards. She even mule-kicked. From the point of impact to where she lay about 100 yards away, I did not find blood. None. Even if the shot pierced the heart or disconnected it fully, I would expect some amount of blood but alas there was none. I can only attribute this lack of blood to the small cut of the broadhead.

I'm going back to big 3-blade expandables like I shoot in my ExoMax. I have a 2" Rocket Hammerhead screwed on my first arrow. I'll keep a fixed head in my quiver, but it won't be the first thing headed downrange.

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Re: Rethinking broadheads

Post by longbow joe » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:02 pm

Sew you mentioned the oregon bow i loved them buggers i had a valiant crusader and a deshutes i used shoot mine instinctive with a release using giant rothaar snuffers massive helical 2219s at 78lbs what a bad a$$ bow. My brother still uses one. Dont get down about your bear messup it happens to all of us. I dont like to talk about it but i flubbed a shot with my longbow 2 years ago on a 190 inch buck i shot him in the butt. Deer survived was fine till a friend of mine killed him . I am still knocking myself for not having my crossbow in that far stand instead of the bow. Ive changed broadheads a dozen times because of bad luck incidents all heads ,they all have there limits i think the foc is a good head .
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SEW
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Re: Rethinking broadheads

Post by SEW » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:09 pm

The Black Knight ruined the party! :( Chasing speed can have disastrous results.

Cut size: I've killed >50 deer with Spitfires. Only loss was with a 2 blade SF(only made 1st year). >15 deer with FOC. The SF has 1 1/2" cut and opening energy loss. The Griz Trick (125g) looks MEAN, has 4 blades, looks like it'd go thru an elephant, has a 1 1/4" cut but with 4 blades, flies about as well to 100 yds as the FOC.
Since I have a good supply of spine indexed, 20" STs, helical Blazers, flat plastic nocks, 92g insert arrows, 125 Griz Trick, I decided to go with these on my BD400.

In summary, I found very little difference between fixed and expandible arrow flight. It's hot and windy here this weekend in Arkansas. I spent a lot of time shooting the M405 and BD400 from 60-100 yds. Shooting arrows in the wind is just like shooting benchrest (6PPC 100-300 yds) in the wind. Just has greater drift. Tony Boyer says you don't really start learning until you're shooting in the wind. Shooting 60-100 yds with 10-15 mph winds is a good learning experience. And fun.
Last edited by SEW on Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Rethinking broadheads

Post by vixenmaster » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:26 pm

Rethinkin maybe but i do like Mech.'if'en they are made in USA, n i don't mean assembled here those are made in China. Here where i hunt 90 out of 100 shots my broadhead hits a rock after a pass-through n its toast! I am goin back to my Magnus Stingers n lifetime warranty
Last edited by vixenmaster on Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LongCarbine
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Re: Rethinking broadheads

Post by LongCarbine » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:08 pm

Guys like to say fixed broadheads are better others like mech. But a lot depends on the type of hunting you do. When hunting from a stand with little wind fixed are good . Now spot and stalk in the mountains , You are always taking your arrow out or putting it in the crossbow and yes YOU can cut a string pretty easy with a fixed . And when it's always windy a fixed head does catch a lot more wind. So instead of saying one is better than the other maybe we should see how it will be used. I think they both have a place in hunting.
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JUSTANUFF
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Re: Rethinking broadheads

Post by JUSTANUFF » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:34 pm

vixenmaster wrote:Rethinkin maybe but i do like Mech.'if'en they are made in USA, n i don't mean assembled here those are made in China. Here where i hunt 90 out of 100 shots my broadhead hits a rock after a pass-through n its toast! I am goin back to my Magnus Stringers n lifetime warranty

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Re: Rethinking broadheads

Post by W.Miguire » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:53 pm

Like I said before I switched from the FOC to the slick trick grizz.2 and do not regret it at all . it is just what you have faith in . shot turkeys with the FOC and had good luck , went only ten feet and lots of meat damage. won't be doing that again. to each their own .
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mmc
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Re: Rethinking broadheads

Post by mmc » Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:25 pm

There's a stubborn a$$ born every minute... and being that I'm that way I won't shoot a mechanical at anything, or for any reason. Why not mechanicals..?

My answer is:
Why? I already have a Swiss Army Knife! It has a gazillion folding blades that will do almost everything for me.... Except it isn't very efficient (as durable, as fast acting, as energy conserving) cutting through massive shoulder bones, a thick winter coat of hair and long, tensed muscles and taut tendons at 360+ fps. For that sort of work there are better more specialized fixed blade designs having no parasitic losses from unnecessary moving parts and very little risk of a malfunction built in.

Yeah, I'm ass-faulted... many times the one-trick pony is the only one I care to ride.

I like reading about SEW's testing sessions too... SEW reminds me of the late and great mind of Smokey Yunick... Smokey LOVED to test. His willingness to test led to him becoming one of the greatest engine design engineers in automobile (and racing) history.

Thanks for sharing with us!
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Re: Rethinking broadheads

Post by sproulman » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:10 pm

They are making the fix heads much nicer today than i ever saw in my life.i was looking at slick trick 100 gr heads they are so small and most at our club use them in their compound bows ...They really shoot nice ....

SEW
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Re: Rethinking broadheads

Post by SEW » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:35 pm

sproulman wrote:They are making the fix heads much nicer today than i ever saw in my life.i was looking at slick trick 100 gr heads they are so small and most at our club use them in their compound bows ...They really shoot nice ....
I tried 125Thunderheads, 125 Wasp XLS, 100,150,175 and 125 Griz Tricks, 100,125 SFs, FOCs and all worked very well with the appropriate wt inserts(use 26,50,92gs with 18 & 20" STs and 18" Zombies. Every one of these were very accurate when the blade were appropriately indexed. The 145g Bear Super Razorhead just wouldn't perform well. Even though they spin tested well. I still love large expandibles but have realized that there is little to no planning with the fixed blades.

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robertyb
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Re: Rethinking broadheads

Post by robertyb » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:39 am

I have shot a lot of deer over the past 50 years with a bow with both fixed and mechanical heads. I usually swap them out between deer now. I have never seen any differences if I do my part right. Never had a mechanical fail on me and never not had a blood trail I could not follow if necessary with either type head.

I have pretty much settled on 100 grain Swackers and Montec G5s now. I will occasionally pull out an old original Vortex mechanical just for old times sake. It was a great head before it's time.
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paulaboutform
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Re: Rethinking broadheads

Post by paulaboutform » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:55 am

DuckHunt wrote:Well, I've come full circle this week rethinking broadheads myself. My ExoMax has never shot fixed blades well. I've tried everything within reason. So my first 8 years with a crossbow was with a dozen different types of expandibles. The only times an expandible failed I had failed to take precautions that could have prevented it like banding spitfires, changing old bands or even double banding. They aren't foolproof, but you can make them so.

Enter my Micro 335. It shoots fixed blades well. With a proper arrow I think it will shoot anything well. So I've been using Wasp Drone or G5 Stryker fixed heads and both shoot great. Earlier this week I fired a near perfect shot on a doe at a mere 12 yards. She even mule-kicked. From the point of impact to where she lay about 100 yards away, I did not find blood. None. Even if the shot pierced the heart or disconnected it fully, I would expect some amount of blood but alas there was none. I can only attribute this lack of blood to the small cut of the broadhead.

I'm going back to big 3-blade expandables like I shoot in my ExoMax. I have a 2" Rocket Hammerhead screwed on my first arrow. I'll keep a fixed head in my quiver, but it won't be the first thing headed downrange.

DuckHunt
Hi DH, unlike compound bows with many tuning variables, our crossbows should shoot a fixed head bh (should being the operative word) if everything is proper. Meaning, limb tiller is equal, arrow is straight and square and broadhead is straight and square. I'd bet a nickel that any of your bows would shoot fixed blades with amazing accuracy....all things being equal. :wink:

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Re: Rethinking broadheads

Post by sproulman » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:04 pm

SEW wrote:
sproulman wrote:They are making the fix heads much nicer today than i ever saw in my life.i was looking at slick trick 100 gr heads they are so small and most at our club use them in their compound bows ...They really shoot nice ....
I tried 125Thunderheads, 125 Wasp XLS, 100,150,175 and 125 Griz Tricks, 100,125 SFs, FOCs and all worked very well with the appropriate wt inserts(use 26,50,92gs with 18 & 20" STs and 18" Zombies. Every one of these were very accurate when the blade were appropriately indexed. The 145g Bear Super Razorhead just wouldn't perform well. Even though they spin tested well. I still love large expandibles but have realized that there is little to no planning with the fixed blades.
THANKS for taking time to test all those heads...I feel this should be made as sticky on top being it is so important on making arrow hit deer and clean kill..Like i was shooting my spitfire 100 gr and arrow fly crazy.we never thought to look that 1 blade opened and caused arrow to hit 5 inchs low...

SEW
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Re: Rethinking broadheads

Post by SEW » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:40 am

The major advantage of an expandible out of a vbow is that the broadhead doesn't bite into its displaced positions just after launch, or as much as a fixed broadhead. With a crossbow, the arrow theoretically comes out straight which doesn't cause this bite to occur. The short arrows (18"-20") and very stiff shafts (Zombies, STs, TTs, and others) and the extreme precision of the Excal xbows with the arrows coming straight out removes most of the flight problems of fixed blades. With all 3 of my Excals, I've tested 125g Wasps, Griz Tricks, std Slick Tricks, Xbow Tricks vs FOCs and field points. In low to no wind, group sizes stayed the same thru 80 yds. Indexing the fixed could bring them to the same impact points of field tips. I rarely found this to be the case with vbows.

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