Arrow flight factors

[SEW]

I was asked a question by pm concerning arrow flight . The questioner has the same 3 bows I have 380,400,405). The answer given below is correct to the best of my limited knowledge. I test incessantly. My goal is long range accuracy in a hunting configuration with the flattest trajectory possible (for hunting: ie, having adequate energy/momentum).
Please feel free to add your thoughts and correct (if you've proven your corrections on the range!), etc.
Here's my answer:




I don't think I can tell much if any difference in the STs vs the Zs. The STs and even more so, the TTs, are supposed to be stiffer. I think you are getting on the low edge of foc with the heavier nocks with 18" arrows. Likely ok with expandible, less ok with fixed.
Longer arrows plane better and give the advantage like a faster arrow. With the same fletching (almost all of us use helical Blazers), two things decrease trajectory, i.e., cause arrow to drop faster : 1) more foc than needed, & 2) shorter arrows.
An 18" arrow with same foc as a 20" arrow (that weighs 15-20g more), will drop faster even though it is a little slower out of the same bow. We all want flatness of trajectory and tend to concentrate on bow speed alone; however, having no more foc than needed and as long an arrow as can be used have tremendous effects on flattening trajectory.
I have a lot of arrows:18"Zs and 18" & 20" STs. When they're eventually gone, I'll likely have only 20" TTs for M380 and 21" TTs for the 400/405.
As arrows get longer, ideal foc decreases. Therefore, total point wt will decrease to below 200gs with the 21" arrows even for fixed. And even less for expandible (like 50g AL insert and 125g expandible).
Whatever weight above the very light flat plastic insert I go if I go to a lighted nock will be added to the insert/point weight.
For a M405 or BD400, likely the flattest, most accurate long range arrow may well be a 21" TT, SK300 in offset, small flat plastic nocks, 26g insert (or possibly 50g insert - have to test at 80-100 yds to see if the 50g insert is needed, likely not), FOC broadhead.
Just some thoughts on your question.
Steve

[paulaboutform]

I have found pretty much just what you've found Steve. I haven't played with the shorter/longer arrows though because as soon as a friend saw the longer arrows I'd made up for testing, he had to have them and they're gone. I will add that I found something interesting with heavy/lighter arrows. I believe the weights were 512 grain ST's and 410 grain zombies. The lighter arrow had less drop at all ranges out to 50yards. At 60yards the drop was equal and by 70yards the lighter arrow actually had more drop.
......and what are the T T arrows you're referring to?

Paul

[SEW]

Tactical Tapp

[amythntr]

Tactical Tapp

....that you Steve....there for a second I thought Trigger Tech was making arras....are TT's made by SSA and are similar to ST's ?

Anthony

[sproulman]

Being i an new to crossbows take what i say as whatever.lol..

when i used my GT arrows in cut 18 inch 415 grs they shot 7 inchs low at 40 yards out of my micro 335 .

when i used Zombies cut to 16 and 1/2 inch weighting 412 grs they shot about 5 inchs low at 40 yards..

never shot past 40 yards .

i was using dead on at 30 yards using 20 yd line..

at 35 yards both arrows shot about 3 inchs low or so...

[SEW]

Tactical Tapp

....that you Steve....there for a second I thought Trigger Tech was making arras....are TT's made by SSA and are similar to ST's ?

Anthony

Anthony,
Both the SS and DS TTs have terrible trajectories; therefore, I'd just use Jerry's newest offering, the Tactical Tapp. I haven't tried it yet.
Steve

[mmc]

The Tactical Tapps are new from SSAS, so little is known about them, but they are claimed to be slightly stiffer than Zombies and Spynal Tapps.

I have some spine & weight matched (18", Sk-300s, 92gr insert, 296.23 gr total wt.) Tactical Tapps for testing and I'm not finding them to be any stiffer (or shooting any different) than identical matched Zombies.

Of course, I may not have put enough weight up front yet to flex 'em! The VPA 175 and 200 may give some indication, but I haven't got my hands on them yet so....

I'd like to see some sort of standardized spine testing done in the industry so we could all have numbers for comparison of each popular shaft up front, before buying.

Good info SEW, thanks again for sharing.

EDIT: I should add that the TTs are great looking shafts with the visible outer carbon fiber layer and the silk screen method used for the Tactical Tapps label. They should sell very well on looks and quality alone!

[flightattendant100]

Y'all don't forget the "Flux Capacitor" !!

[xcaliber]

Zombie Slayer's with a different label folks, period!

[mmc]

Zombie Slayer's with a different label folks, period!

Maybe so, but not enough experience with them yet to be that bold.

The Carbon layer certainly makes them an entirely different construction than STs or Zombies... Each of the four TTs I have measured less than 0.0006" (six ten-thousandth inch) from being perfectly straight and each arrow arrived matched within 0.014 grains total weight. The shaft quality is exceptional and the labeling isn't likely to burn off (or scuff off, altering the spine) in a target block neither. Time and testing will reveal if they are stiffer or not. Same price as a Spynal or Zombie shaft regardless... so nothing to complain about yet.

I thought about clamping the TT shafts in a machinists V-block and using a dial indicator (accurate to 0.0001") to measure shaft deflection vs the Zombies, but that sort of testing would take time (that I can't spare right now) and only satisfy me... too many others would argue about the precision and/or methods employed to be helpful.

[xcaliber]

When arrows are sorted to a straightness tolerance, that is the maximum variation allowed. Black Eagle has assured their dealers that the Zombie Slayer's are the premium crossbow arrows, and they would not make a special line for any individual supplier. The graphics are the only exception.

[mmc]

That makes good business sense xcaliber, but the TT shafts are definitely made by Black Eagle and are certainly an entirely different construction than Zombies. Its way more than graphics and labels changes... they are new Black Eagle models.

Seen them yet? I'll take some pics in a bit....

[xcaliber]

I have not, and just ordered some stuff from their website.

[SouthShoreRat]

Zombie Slayer's with a different label folks, period!

Not exactly correct, the Spynal tapps use the same carbon composite as the zombies but they have tighter tolerances.

And Spynal Tapps are the only 26.5 in shaft on the market. We bring them in that way so we can cut them from both ends.

We take 3.0 inches off of the nock end then cut them to length. You cant do this to any other crossbow arrow on the market. This gives them a leg up on getting the straightest arrows possible.

[SouthShoreRat]

Tactical Tapp

....that you Steve....there for a second I thought Trigger Tech was making arras....are TT's made by SSA and are similar to ST's ?

Anthony

Anthony,
Both the SS and DS TTs have terrible trajectories; therefore, I'd just use Jerry's newest offering, the Tactical Tapp. I haven't tried it yet.
Steve

An arrows trajectory is based on overall weight of the arrows, the bows energy and the drag on the arrow.

If we were to build two test arrows, one with a 100 grain point and 300 grain shaft. The second has a 200 grain point and a 200 grain shafts. Both use the same fletching and nocks. Both arrows will have very similar points of impact.

What I am saying here is FOC does not dramatically effect trajectory in itself. It has more to do with the weight, bows available energy and the drag the shafts has to endure.