Shooting AT the Shoulder

[Hi5]

I have always accepted the idea that in archery the only place to aim for is the heart/lungs area.

I have to admit that in my earlier days, I was surprised that it was possible for an arrow to penetrate rib bones. My thinking was colored by my experience in eating cooked ribs. They are HARD. They would require a whole lot more energy to penetrate than the rib bones of a live animal. Cooking hardens the bone. I did understand that later after seeing how easily arrows passed through rib bones on both sides of the rib cage, even on a large animal such as elk.

Lately I've read suggestions on this forum that an archer should aim deliberately at the shoulders of a deer. This was stated to be a means of preventing the deer from moving very far from where it was shot.

I can tell by how deeply my arrow buries itself into a hard foam target that my 405 has a WAY more penetrating power than my Exomax. However, I still want to be persuaded that either bow has the power to drive an arrow through both shoulder bones of a deer. Not just sometimes, but reliably, each time.

What would it need to make it reliable? The brute power of the 405 or Bulldog? Heavier weight arrow? Strongest broadheads? All of the above?

Are mechanicals strong enough? For that matter, does an arrow passing through both shoulders of a deer actually reduce its distance of flight?

Just wondering if I need to revise my thinking.....

[Mmiller385]

I would agree with that with a bullet which causes more blunt trauma but busting through shoulder bones on a mature deer with arrow an broadhead is risky. Imo stick to the double lunger.

[DuckHunt]

Don't do with a bow! That's my recommendation. Now with the right rifle or muzzleloader, its a good way to anchor a deer most of the time.

Apologies in advance for those that prefer clean images, but there's no other way to show this. This photo shows the result of 2" mechanical head directly through a bucks shoulder joint at 30 yards out of an ExoMax using an arrow around 360 grains. One of the blades was bent some, but it cut a path through the shoulder socket and even shaved off part of the shoulder bone (far right).

Can you shoot through a shoulder? Yes. Can you shoot through two? Well, that depends. In the case above, so much power was lost penetrating the first shoulder that the broadhead barely reached the far shoulder. The deer ran about 80 yards.

With a heavier arrow, a smaller fixed head and perhaps more speed, I believe you could argue that you can consistently shoot through both shoulders. If you could, its still a horrible shot. I don't think you would consistently drop a deer even if you broke both shoulders. And from my experience, entrance and exit wounds through the shoulder or under the armpit bleed very poorly. Blood has to navigate out through a moving joint and muscle which can block its means to exit. A poor blood trail can lead to a difficult recovery. This buck didn't put down a cup of blood over the 80 yards and that was with a 2" 3-blade broadhead hole in it.

Save yourself the heartache and double lung it. You'll consistenly get more blood and the target has more margin for error.

DuckHunt

[nchunterkw]

Don't do with a bow! That's my recommendation.

Save yourself the heartache and double lung it. You'll consistenly get more blood and the target has more margin for error.

DuckHunt

AND you'll damage far less meat than trying to bust both shoulders.

This is archery, not gun hunting. The idea is to create blood loss not create blunt force trauma like a bullet. You WANT the arrow to pass completely through the deer so the broad head can cause the most damage. The game is played by shooting the deer and then following the blood trail. Tracking is as big a part of archery as is taking the shot.

[sproulman]

no

[rein1]

no

X2

[Patcon]

Even though I don't have very many years of experience, I thought I would throw in some more anecdotal evidence. This morning about 10:00 a little 8 pt buck stepped out under me. He came up beside me and started moving away on the path I walked in on. We have been in rifle season since the middle of October. I set the scope on the right rib cage with him quartering away. Tagged him and he ran about 60 yds all humped up, head down. When I had him in the truck I thought he had a tumor on his left front shoulder. Then I couldn't find the exit wound. Turns out the "tumor" was my bullet just under the skin. 220 grn Core Lok out of a 30-06 didn't even make out through the left shoulder. So I would say shoulder shot is a bad idea as the others have said...

[longbow joe]

If you look back in the original post i said that a double lung or best yet strait down double lung heart was your best bet . Some disagreed l might not have a tv show or a magazine column but i have killed close to a100 suburban backyard white tails what do l know? As you just said l agree. A shoulder shot is unreliable even with a 400 fps crossbow now a 12guage slug is a different story. .

[Shotnbeer]

If you look back on some of vixenmaster's post he has some valid reasons and arrow combinations that will do the trick.

[Goose52]

I thought I would throw in some more anecdotal evidence. 220 grn Core Lok out of a 30-06 didn't even make out through the left shoulder. So I would say shoulder shot is a bad idea as the others have said...[/quote]

anecdotal bullet question/observation: 1. i have used core-locks for 40+ years but have lately heard of guys having misfires with them... anyone else hearing that? 2. i shot a doe with a 223gr powerbelt in the shoulder during muzzle season & the bullet shattered leaving no bloodtrail. had to come back the next day and finally found her with blood the last 10 yards of her 175 yard run. guess i'll shoot behind the shoulder with the smokepole as well as the xbow.

[Patcon]

No misfires yet on the Coreloks but I don't have any really new ammo. A box of 20 last me a couple of years.
It's good you found her.

[sproulman]

I thought I would throw in some more anecdotal evidence. 220 grn Core Lok out of a 30-06 didn't even make out through the left shoulder. So I would say shoulder shot is a bad idea as the others have said...

anecdotal bullet question/observation: 1. i have used core-locks for 40+ years but have lately heard of guys having misfires with them... anyone else hearing that? 2. i shot a doe with a 223gr powerbelt in the shoulder during muzzle season & the bullet shattered leaving no bloodtrail. had to come back the next day and finally found her with blood the last 10 yards of her 175 yard run. guess i'll shoot behind the shoulder with the smokepole as well as the xbow.[/quote]




.............................................................................................

Behind shoulder gun/bow ..

Core -lock remington bullets should be fine from 40 years ago...

Powerbelt 223 bullet pushed in a in-line at fast speed are disaster ...They fall apart..We do not ever use in-line to much like high power rifle we are 53 year FLINTLOCK only ..So 2 things you can do slow your 223 bullet down if you are using in-line or go to heavier Powerbelt bullet...We like 348 gr powerbelt in our .50 cal hawkins with 70 grs of 3f ..I use rd ball and patch with around 70 grs..if you are using in-line go to 295 powerbelt and keep your powder under 100 grs .....

[nchunterkw]

Yep, I've seen Powerbelts do the same thing, but thankfully the deer didn't make it too far. And I have heard similar things. It's a shame because they shoot really well for me. I'll have to try Sproul's suggestion of slowing them down.

[Bullzeye]

Even with a rifle I stay away from the shoulder, it's a waste of meat.