Interesting CWD Developments

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IronNoggin
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Interesting CWD Developments

Post by IronNoggin »

The video is a little dry, but the information (if correct) is staggering:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdtFXriMx00

This has one hell of a lot of potential implications for what is occurring in so much of North America.

https://www.outdoornews.com/2019/01/11/flat-earth-cwd-and-other-science/

Crossing Fingers & Hoping!!

Cheers,
Nog
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Re: Interesting CWD Developments

Post by Hi5 »

Thanks for posting. This is the first I had heard of this. After watching the video you linked, I did a google search and came up with this article/interview.

https://elknetwork.com/louisiana-scientist-claims-breakthrough-in-cwd-research/

I really hope he has made a breakthrough. I am troubled, however, that the article was dated December 2017. I would have expected that his scientific peers in the meantime would have given him much more recognition than it appears. An Australian doctor proved that stomach ulcers were caused by bacteria, and had to fight the medical/scientific community to accept the proof. So, who knows, maybe this fellow has the answer and has to fight to prove his point.

I just hope that this is actually a situation where there is a science hero toiling away in his laboratory and most of the world is oblivious to his success.
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Re: Interesting CWD Developments

Post by Fazan »

Hi5 wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:14 am
An Australian doctor proved that stomach ulcers were caused by bacteria, and had to fight the medical/scientific community to accept the proof.
He had a whole pharmaceutical world against him. He offered simple solution (combination of existing antibiotics) to CURE the ulcer vs trend in pharmaceutical industry to TREAT any illness with medications that you need to take (and buy!) for rest of your life. Profit first, people last...
I've got rid of my ulcer thanks to him.
I don't know where the WILD animals will fall in this business oriented environment. Nobody spends too much money on them.
Just much 2 cents.
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Re: Interesting CWD Developments

Post by IronNoggin »

Hi5 wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:14 am
... I am troubled, however, that the article was dated December 2017. I would have expected that his scientific peers in the meantime would have given him much more recognition than it appears...
True, but it is still early in the game.
Give it a little time (and yeah, I know, that's a commodity we are running out of in this instance) and we will know if he has something here or not...

While I am hopeful, I also know there are a literal host of others working on the CWD problem.
For the sake of our ungulates and more, I indeed with them ALL The Very Best! :thumbup:

Cheers,
Nog
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Re: Interesting CWD Developments

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A childhood friend who worked at the CRC told me once in regards to cancer . " There is no money in a cure but there is lots of money in research ".
The neysayers of anything don`t ever want to see an end to research dollars of something .
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Re: Interesting CWD Developments

Post by IronNoggin »

Another potential here:

U of A scientists found a property in soil that help prevent the spread of chronic wasting disease, a fatal illness that affects white-tailed deer (pictured), mule deer, moose, elk and caribou in North America.

https://www.folio.ca/scientists-unearth-soil-property-that-combats-chronic-wasting-disease/

Here's hoping one or more of these studies pin down The Answer soon!

http://wildlife.org/compound-in-soil-fights-chronic-wasting-disease/

Cheers,
Nog
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Re: Interesting CWD Developments

Post by SEW »

Fazan wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:10 pm
Hi5 wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:14 am
An Australian doctor proved that stomach ulcers were caused by bacteria, and had to fight the medical/scientific community to accept the proof.
He had a whole pharmaceutical world against him. He offered simple solution (combination of existing antibiotics) to CURE the ulcer vs trend in pharmaceutical industry to TREAT any illness with medications that you need to take (and buy!) for rest of your life. Profit first, people last...
I've got rid of my ulcer thanks to him.
I don't know where the WILD animals will fall in this business oriented environment. Nobody spends too much money on them.
Just much 2 cents.
Prior to the acceptance and almost loosing his liscense, not to mention all the ridicule, doxycycline was below $10 . It’s generic, has been out at least 40 year. Now, it’s much closer to $100 for just 20 tablets. And, it’s generic!! Strange, isn’t it, that now so much money is now being made on “the cure”.

There is a book out, “How Not to Die”. We’ve lived by the principles in this book for years, decades. My wife and I have been married for over 50 years, take no medications, both have BPs <120/80, my resting pulse is 46-48. She is 5’9” weighs appx 130, nearly the same as when we got married. I still shoot my 52# recurve. People misjudge our age. On average, we don’t have to age and be sick like so many on our society do. But most doctors either don’t know about healthful eating/exercise or have just given up on try to share this with patients.

There’s no money in wellness. There’s no money to be made in basic, natural Whole Foods. But the fast food, poultry, beef, soft drink, liquor, PHARMACEUTICAL industries that have helped fund medical schools for almost a century and a half (not sure if this is still going on now) essentially control the agencies that “regulate” food and medicine.
I encourage my patients to eat, think and live healthfully.

Why all the above? The statement quoted above just hit home again, I preach it, “Profit first, people last”. There’s no money in health.

And yes, there is a book on “How to die and live forever”. It’s called, “The Bible”. :D
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Re: Interesting CWD Developments

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A few newer articles from PA.

https://lancasteronline.com/sports/outdoors/could-we-be-wrong-about-what-causes-dreaded-chronic-wasting/article_6b68034a-2b14-11e9-96b6-8bdb169e7a30.html

https://wjactv.com/news/local/researchers-claim-cure-to-deadly-deer-disease-game-commission-responds

Looks like United SPortsmen of Pennsylvania are trying to raise $$ for the LSU guy, and of course the Game Commission is saying that he can't be right.
Keith
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Re: Interesting CWD Developments

Post by vixenmaster »

You can jus bet that the Auto Ins. sure does not want any cure for the deer n such. They lose lots of samolians n don't like it. So all of the States Wildlife n Conservation groups tend to ignore anything unless they lead the way. $$$$$$$$$, i try to avoid Med.'s n suck up pain like a sponge. By the time they decide to act on a cure almost all deer n such will have died off. Mo. Consevation Officers enjoy goin to the States Counties n killin the deer. They call it cleanin out CWD hotspots to stop the spreadin, sure thing, i think they jus like to kill animals
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Re: Interesting CWD Developments

Post by Hi5 »

When I was reading some of the links that were offered, I did notice that the university had made a press release in connection with his discovery. The link to that press release doesn't work now and I wasn't able to make a direct connection to the press release by doing a google search.

It could be that I just didn't correctly enter information when I was doing my searches. Maybe it's a computer glitch. It might just be me or the internet to blame.

It does make me wonder, though, if the university might now be backing away from appearing to endorse his announcement.

If he has published anything in the scientific literature, by now there should have been some peer review. Before I invested any money in his research, I think I would be getting a pretty bad case of eye strain. My science understanding is very, very, weak, but I would be reading every scrap I could find.

I hope he receives a Nobel prize for ground breaking work if and when it proves out. Wouldn't it be wonderful for the hunting organizations to be able to say that when all the government agencies and Big Agriculture interests stood by, hunters saved the day? Not PETA, World Wildlife Fund, Greenpeace, etc, etc? Talk about a dream come true!

I'm not a skeptic --I'm just hesitant to get my hopes up yet.
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Re: Interesting CWD Developments

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Other articles I have read have said that his work has not been able to be duplicated. So that's not great news, but let's hope he is correct and that eventually other agencies will follow on. There are also articles that decribe how the "accepted theory" of the prion is also full of questionable things such as: 5% - 10% of CWD cases showing no instance of prions, other non-diseased animals having prions (which is explained as "spontaneous prion production")...so none of this is a done deal. But "prion research" is what is getting funded at the moment, so why would those scientists go against that theory? It might result in their funding getting cut. We have seen time and again how the scientific community flat out lies to propagate a given opinion. Or they change data, which to me is the same thing. (case in point Global Warming). So who knows? What we do know is the current research isn't really helping or discovering a cause. Maybe this guy is on to something or maybe he is just trying to validate his 40yrs of research....but he has convinced at least one other Dr. from Yale, I believe.
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Re: Interesting CWD Developments

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https://www.amazon.com/How-Not-Die-Discover-Scientifically/dp/1250066115/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=how+not+to+die&qid=1551312756&s=gateway&sr=8-1
I believe this is the book SEW referenced for what it's worth. I have a copy on the way...
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Re: Interesting CWD Developments

Post by Deaf jeff »

another interesting read.......

What We Know About the Recent News of a CWD Cure
BY JOSH HONEYCUTTMARCH 13, 2019
And What We Still Don't

You might have heard the recent claims, or read the headlines, that said a cure for CWD has been found. But has it? (Shutterstock / Betty Shelton photo)
You might have heard the recent claims, or read the headlines, that said a cure for CWD has been found. But has it? (Shutterstock / Betty Shelton photo)


Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) continues to worry deer biologists, managers and hunters across the country. It isn’t going away. It’s only getting worse.

Many people aren’t aware of CWD, or simply don’t understand the full breadth of the threat it poses. Most researchers believe CWD is caused by an abnormal protein referred to as a prion. Once contracted, it is an always-fatal disease that thrives in the nervous system of cervids (deer, elk, reindeer and moose). It can be passed on through saliva, urine, feces, spinal and brain fluids, etc. Similar diseases affect other animals such as Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE) which is also referred to as Mad Cow Disease. It’s also found in sheep, known as Scrapie. Interestingly enough, we already know that Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD) — a sister disease to BSE and CWD — is capable of infecting humans.

That aside, you might have heard the recent claims, or read the headlines, that said a cure for CWD has been found. Well, technically a cure hasn’t been found, yet. But one former Louisiana State University neuropathologist, Dr. Frank Bastian, believes he’s on the right road to discovering it. And all due to his belief in his research that points to spiroplasma — and not prions — as the causative agent of CWD. In other words, he believes CWD is caused by bacteria — not malformed proteins.

“The point is that we have really shown that the bacterium is involved in this disease,” Bastian said. “In that sense, the door has been swung open in being able to start to control this. The big thing that’s happened to me is I’ve been able to grow (the CWD bacterium). I was dead in the water if I couldn’t grow it. I can now characterize it. I can get it in self re-culture. I can develop anti-bodies to it. I can develop tests and vaccines. This is going to be a big difference for the hunting industry.

“My question to hunters — you see a deer, you shoot it, how do you know it’s not sick, or if it has CWD?” Bastian asked. “There’s no way to tell, because basically, the 18-month incubation period during that time, they’re totally normal in appearance. So, you need a test — an instant test. My plan is to do that with a pocket test, something with an immunological reaction to the bacterium. That’s on the horizon. Basically, what you’d do is take a drop of blood, put it on the test and if it’s positive, don’t even dress it. If it’s negative, I wouldn’t worry about it.”

The real question, though, is how does this help wild deer? Many believe it would virtually be impossible to administer vaccines to wild cervids. And if Bastian’s claims are correct, there are still many factors that must be considered. Darrel Rowledge with Preventative Safety Research, Inc., made those thoughts known.

“While there are, or could be, some interesting aspects and findings underlying Bastian’s work, there are also some very significant challenges,” Rowledge said. “Vastly more important, in practical terms the notion or role of bacteria is distinction without difference. If true — nothing about Bastian’s conjecture changes the need to contain the spread of the pathogen. It does nothing to change the enormous costs, debt, and deepening deficit of CWD. It does nothing to change the massively destructive costs of privatizing and commercializing wildlife. It does not change the fact that there are dozens of pathogens and parasites that are amplified by captivity and commercialization. It does not change the attack on genetic integrity and diversity, or the fact of genetic manipulation and pollution driven by market preferences. It does not change the reality of habitat/biodiversity loss, fragmentation, and ecosystem disruption instantly imposed by captivity. It cannot change the perversity of (unfettered) short term profit forces inclined to dominate over public interest. It does not reverse the disconnection of people from wild species and the natural landscapes that produce and protect them. It does not change the fact of evolving pathogens in evolving landscapes, or the absurdity of trying to find band-aids and cures rather than designing policy to stop fostering, incubating, and spreading them.”

CWD affects all cervids, not just white-tailed deer. (Shutterstock / Pam Walker photo)
CWD affects all cervids, not just white-tailed deer. (Shutterstock / Pam Walker photo)


Despite Bastian’s research, overall, there are many leading research authorities who don’t completely agree with his findings. The Quality Deer Management Association (QDMA), among others, recently came out with a response to Bastian’s work.

“Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is caused by prions, and the scientific evidence is overwhelming,” QDMA said. “While it’s important to explore all potential solutions to this serious challenge, the spiroplasma theory is not new and has been thoroughly examined for years without verification. Nothing could be better news for deer hunters than the discovery of a cure for CWD, but the recent promises that a cure is coming soon have no basis in confirmed science. For now, we must all remain focused on preventing the spread of CWD to new areas.”

The National Deer Alliance (NDA) also had a response.

“Please consider the following research, which is related to the claim currently receiving a good deal of publicity that spiroplasma bacteria are the causative agents of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs) like chronic wasting disease (CWD),” NDA said. “We are encouraged that researchers continue to seek answers about this very complicated disease and are hopeful that what is learned can help us make prudent decisions about how to manage it for the long-term health of wild deer, hunting, and industry.

“Artificially synthesized prions have shown to be capable of causing prion disease. To rule out the role of unidentified substances as disease causative agents in samples of infectious tissues, researchers successfully created a “clean” synthetic version of the scrapie prion that was capable of infecting mice.”

The NDA pointed to several studies and their findings.

“Research claiming that bacteria are the causative agents of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies has never been reproduced despite extremely rigorous attempts to do so. In blind studies done by the University of Maryland School of Medicine, samples of brain material infected with scrapie, along with uninfected samples, were searched for Spiroplasma spp. and other common bacteria and bacteria-like structures using Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) amplification (PCR is a method widely used in molecular biology to make many copies of specific DNA segments). Researchers found no evidence that any eubacterium, including spiroplasma or any other bacteria type, was consistently associated with scrapie-infected brain tissue, thus concluding that the “agent responsible for TSE disease cannot be a spiroplasma or any other eubacterial species.” — Source: Absence of Spiroplasma or Other Bacterial 16S rRNA Genes in Brain Tissue of Hamsters with ScrapieIrina Alexeeva, Ellen J. Elliott, Sandra Rollins, Gail E. Gasparich, Jozef Lazar, Robert G. RohwerJournal of Clinical Microbiology

“An extensive research project completed at Louisiana State University on the potential roles of spiroplasma in transmissible spongiform encephalopathies found that following inoculation of spiroplasma mirum into neonatal goats and 5-month-old white-tailed deer, none of the animals developed clinical signs or pathology seen in transmissible spongiform encephalopathies. In this study, the bacteria were introduced to the animals intracerebrally, intravenous, or intradermally. Additionally, researchers conducting this study tested three species of Spiroplasma and found that they were susceptible to minimal dilutions of common laboratory disinfectants as well as heat sterilization of only 250°F for 15 minutes. In a wide array of other studies, samples of transmissible spongiform encephalopathy-infected material treated with similar sterilization methods were shown to remain infectious; thus, indicating that other factors not related to bacteria result in the transmission and/or persistence of the disease.” — Source: French, Hilari Maree, "Characterization of Spiroplasma mirum and its role in transmissible spongiform encephalopathies"

“Nearly all experimental examination of TSE-causing agents point to proteins at the infectious agent. The hallmark study of the prions’ role in transmissible spongiform encephalopathies was conducted by Dr. Stanley Prusiner who demonstrated that after adding enzymes that destroyed DNA and RNA to scrapie-infected brain material, the material remained infections. These enzymes would have damaged or destroyed bacteria present in the samples. However, when he added protein-neutralizing enzymes to the scrapie-infected brain material, it’s infectivity plummeted. Thus, he demonstrated that the causative agent of the disease was most likely protein based, not bacterial-based. It should be noted that Prusiner’s work earned a Nobel Prize due to its rigor and reproducibility by other researchers. — Source: Prusiner SB. (1982). Novel proteinaceous infectious particles cause scrapie. Science.

Once contracted, CWD is an always-fatal disease that thrives in the nervous system of cervids (deer, elk, reindeer and moose). It can be passed on through saliva, urine, feces, spinal and brain fluids, etc. (Shutterstock / Photos by Andy photo)
Once contracted, CWD is an always-fatal disease that thrives in the nervous system of cervids (deer, elk, reindeer and moose). It can be passed on through saliva, urine, feces, spinal and brain fluids, etc. (Shutterstock / Photos by Andy photo)


Dr. Bastian pointed to both his own research and colleagues' findings to support his belief. Of which seem to suggest this isn’t just a problem for cervids, but that it could possibly be transmissible to humans.

“I know there has been some controversy in regard to transmission to sub-human primates,” Bastian said. “Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD), the human form [of CWD], usually affects between 40 and 80 years of age, right in the prime of your life. It’s an infection. How they discovered the problem in England is, all of a sudden, they could start to see the disease in teenagers, suggesting a more virulent form of the organism. And in fact, pathologically, there are changes that support that they were associated with a more virulent form of mad cow disease. Well, if you look at CJD in the western states, where CWD is prevalent, you start to see 20-year-olds come down with CJD. That’s worrisome. And why it’s worrisome is the pathology of CWD closely resembles mad cow disease, suggesting it’s a more virulent form of the transmissible agent. But I think that will be worked out when they start studying the bacteria properly.

Bastian also believes there’s a possibility that bacteria associated with CWD, and more directly, CJD, are linked to Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s.

“There has been a study that’s shown — and I wasn’t involved in it — but point being is that they showed that spiroplasma, just the laboratory strain, in tissue culture will induce alpha synuclein, which is a protein associated with Parkinson’s disease,” Bastian continued. “But also, there’s a great deal of interest in bacterial infections causing Alzheimer’s disease.”

Still, some sources are seemingly caught in the middle as to how they believe. This is what one unnamed source had to say.

“Over the years, there have been numerous studies exploring the potential role of spiroplasma bacteria in CWD transmission and persistence. At best, that body of research is inconclusive and contradictory. Dr. Bastian’s work and theories (which have been around for many years) have yet to be replicated by the scientific community, despite many attempts to do so. That does not mean, however, that spiroplasma or other unknown factors don’t play some role in CWD transmission beyond that of prions.”

Bryan Richards with the USGS also had interesting input.

“The overwhelming majority of peer-reviewed publications (plus a Nobel laureate) support that a mis-folded protein plays a central role in TSE's, as well as other diseases of the ageing,” Richards said. “Does that rule out some role of spiroplasma? No, but it does suggest that role, if there is one, is not central.”

Dr. Frank Bastian, a neuropathologist formerly with the Louisiana State University. (LSU photo)
Dr. Frank Bastian, a neuropathologist formerly with the Louisiana State University. (LSU photo)

As one might say, it seems that there are two sides to this coin. Most researchers believe that CWD is caused by prions. A few believe it’s bacterium-based. We asked Bastian why he felt his research has received so much criticism.

“The prion has become a business,” Bastian said. “They’ve spent a couple hundred million dollars on this disease. If you aren’t working on the prion, you can’t get money at all. Those people researching the prion essentially control all of the funding.”

“Before the CWD epidemic, there was no one who really cared, CJD was considered a rare disease,” Bastian continued. “If not for the CWD epidemic, my information would have died on the vine. I have a close friend that’s a professor at LSU, and he said, well, I’m convinced your absolutely right. But, he said, I think it will be rediscovered 30 years from now. But we have to go in the right direction. That’s the problem. We’ve spent 40-plus years trying to make sense out of the prion theory. And uh, we’re going nowhere. There’s a tendency to follow the dogma. And that’s the problem. The prion group has kicked me out. They haven’t attached me. They’ve ignored me. And that’s been very effective.”

In conclusion, it’s apparent that Bastian stands firm in his findings. And it’s clear that many other sources do not agree with him. It’s clear we still don’t know much about CWD. There’s still more yet to learn than what’s already been discovered. The takeaway — CWD is a serious issue. And anyone who passes it off as insignificant is wrong.

Several challenges still arise with the big issue of CWD. First, we’re met with the challenge of detecting it. We don’t fully understand how it mutates (and science has proven that it can mutate). Bastian claims there is a cure, but time will tell. It’s killing deer throughout half the country and rapidly spreading. Managing it has been near to impossible. Too many people are brushing it under the rug. And funding we currently have for research, testing and management are pennies in comparison to what’s needed to defeat this disease.

“We have to look at what is and what was,” Rowledge said. “Prions are the single greatest challenge left in biology. But what’s happening on a large scale is we aren’t asking the questions that need to be asked.”

Despite those who foolishly brush it under the rug and claim it should be of no concern to you, it is a problem. Listen to the experts. Sift through the data. Think for yourself. But don’t just sit back and take someone’s word for it. And for those who recognize the threat for what it is, the last thing we should do is grow complacent. There’s still a lot we don’t know about this disease. But we know enough to realize it’s past time to take action.
IN GOD WE TRUST
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Re: Interesting CWD Developments

Post by Kegbelly »

Here is some info from my state (AL) DNR.

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/ALDNR/bulletins/236f65d

They mention some misinformation spreading via social media, such as soon to be available test kits, vaccines, etc. None of which they say is true. I know where we hunt we are within a 50 mile radius of confirmed CWD cases and ALDNR had check stations set up this season where you could voluntarily have your deer tested. I hope it doesn't reach us but the sad reality is it probably already has and just hasn't been detected yet.
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Re: Interesting CWD Developments

Post by nchunterkw »

Good article Jeff.....
At least we can see that there is still research going on....but I get the feeling that it is now all politicized...like everything else. $$ and special interest are driving the activity. It seems that scientists aren't all that open to discovery, but rather just open to discovering more $$ to keep doing what they are doing. And the deer farm guys are only concerned with being able to keep doing what they do to make $$ even though there is a HUGE correlation to deer farms and CWD. I tend to agree with Bastian's friend. He may be right about the bacteria but it won't be re-discovered until he is long dead.
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and walk in it and find rest for your souls. - Jer 6:16

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