BC Proposal to BAN Scopes on Crossbows

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ko4nrbs
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Re: BC Proposal to BAN Scopes on Crossbows

Post by ko4nrbs » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:44 pm

Timbrhuntr wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:13 pm
I hope I'm wrong as I do love hunting with my excals (scope included) and all especially since I am limited in the use of my compound and can't shoot a trad bow often enough to be any good with it now.
X2, Don't have the time or the muscle tone anymore. Time caught up with me!!
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Re: BC Proposal to BAN Scopes on Crossbows

Post by Tom » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:04 am

Timbrhuntr wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:13 pm
I don't disagree that scopes make the weapon more accurate whether that means less wounding or not thats just an opinion. The issue for me is that as more and more technology is added to the crossbow yes it gets easier and more efficient to use. I honestly don't see this as good for its continued use in the archery only seasons. I believe that if game numbers start to be affected and game managers start to look at the efficiency of this weapon it might be taken out of the archery season in many juristictions. I hope I'm wrong as I do love hunting with my excals (scope included) and all especially since I am limited in the use of my compound and can't shoot a trad bow often enough to be any good with it now.
How can you say
I don't disagree that scopes make the weapon more accurate whether that means less wounding or not thats just an opinion.
if you are not as accurate, this means your arrow will not always hit where you are aiming, therefore you either totally miss (better than bad hit) or you have a bad hit (wounding). This is "cause and effect" of not being as accurate as you can be.

Making any archery equipment less accurate does NOT help in controlling numbers of animls harvested, I can see it harming the numbers in the herds. If a hunter has a bad hit and is not able to recover the animal, the hunter does not use his tag, therefore is able to continue hunting to fill his tag. This means more than one animal might be eliminated per tag. NOT A GOOD THING I can also see the image of hunting taking a turn for the bad because there more than likely be lost animals being found dead by an anti-hunter, again NOT A GOOD THING.

As hunters, conservationist or just a norml person, it is a responsible position to make sure we harvest our game in a humain mannor with the least suffering possible. When we take steps that make it more difficult to do humain harvests, it is a disrespect to the animals and the hunting community.

Tom
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Timbrhuntr
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Re: BC Proposal to BAN Scopes on Crossbows

Post by Timbrhuntr » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:38 am

Well then we should all be using scoped rifles if efficiency is all that matters.

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Re: BC Proposal to BAN Scopes on Crossbows

Post by SEW » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:06 am

Boo wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:20 am
Paul, it may be elitism but companies like Ravin gave them the cannon fodder. Meet you next rifle??? :thumbdown:
I agree totally. As a avid traditional bowhunter for over 60 years, I passionately despise the arrogance and self serving mind(less)set of many of the “bowhunting” groups. They are like a giant malignancy in the hunting ranks. How anyone shooting one of these machines can view themselves as shooting the essence of true bowhunting is beyond me.
As much as I love instinctive shooting and hunting (I practice my traditional shooting at least 5x weekly), I see much more reason to attack traditional bowhunting than crossbow hunting.
I’m generally fairly tolerant of others mind or mindless sets, but struggle with the elitist compound shooters. Of course, not all, or hopefully even the majority of compound shooters are in this category.

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Re: BC Proposal to BAN Scopes on Crossbows

Post by Tom » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:09 am

Timbrhuntr wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:38 am
Well then we should all be using scoped rifles if efficiency is all that matters.
Sorry ...... but I feel that you are being totally ridiculous.

A scoped rifle should give you 1/2" groups at 100 yards while a scoped cossbow is about 1/2" at 30 yards.

Your target on an animal is about 5-7" and you should be able to maintain your arrow or bullet inside of that area. There are many different variables which may effect this (wind, cold, movement ect) that we have little or no control of, why should we restrict equipment that hrlps with effective humain harvests. I have started with crosbows with peep sights so I do know the difference in accuracy. An open or peep sight tends to be bout 4-5" groups at 30 yards, from a good shooter, an average shooter is probably worse than that. If your arrow wonders tht much from your point of aim and your vitals is as limited as it is, there is a very good chance your arrow can miss the vitals.

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Re: BC Proposal to BAN Scopes on Crossbows

Post by Timbrhuntr » Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:26 pm

Ya I don't get it . If your only reason is that a scope makes it more efficient at making a killing shot and all that matters is making a good shot then we should all be hunting with modern firearms as they are the most efficient. Bow seaon is not about using more and more efficient weapons or their would never have been a special bow season at all !

Kinda like primitive weapon season if you can put scopes and inlined rifled barrels in them then why have a primitive season at all !
My feeling is that as a weapon becomes more efficient at killing it should be regulated or moved out of the special seasons.There are reasons for special seasons the animals are more vulnerable its not about the weapon but the animal in my opinion and there is more to that than just weapon efficiency !

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Re: BC Proposal to BAN Scopes on Crossbows

Post by Timbrhuntr » Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:38 pm

"Making any archery equipment less accurate does NOT help in controlling numbers of animls harvested, I can see it harming the numbers in the herds. If a hunter has a bad hit and is not able to recover the animal, the hunter does not use his tag, therefore is able to continue hunting to fill his tag. This means more than one animal might be eliminated per tag. NOT A GOOD THING I can also see the image of hunting taking a turn for the bad because there more than likely be lost animals being found dead by an anti-hunter, again NOT A GOOD THING."

Its all by degree and where do you stop. No recurves because they are less efficient , nobody can use anything except for a scoped crossbow because its more efficient at killing !

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Re: BC Proposal to BAN Scopes on Crossbows

Post by Timbrhuntr » Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:45 pm

"As hunters, conservationist or just a norml person, it is a responsible position to make sure we harvest our game in a humain mannor with the least suffering possible. When we take steps that make it more difficult to do humain harvests, it is a disrespect to the animals and the hunting community."



If all you want is a more efficeint and humane way to kill with the least suffering then just putting a scope on a crossbow isn't the answer what you are saying is bow hunting is too hard and inefficient so we should remove all bows etc and go modern rifle only lol

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Re: BC Proposal to BAN Scopes on Crossbows

Post by IronNoggin » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:14 pm

Timbrhuntr wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:26 pm
Ya I don't get it . If your only reason is that a scope makes it more efficient at making a killing shot and all that matters is making a good shot then we should all be hunting with modern firearms as they are the most efficient.
You are quite free to give up your scoped crossbow and use only your scoped rifle.
Lead by example!! :roll:

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Re: BC Proposal to BAN Scopes on Crossbows

Post by Tom » Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:10 pm

Timbrhuntr wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:26 pm
Ya I don't get it . If your only reason is that a scope makes it more efficient at making a killing shot and all that matters is making a good shot then we should all be hunting with modern firearms as they are the most efficient. Bow seaon is not about using more and more efficient weapons or their would never have been a special bow season at all !

Kinda like primitive weapon season if you can put scopes and inlined rifled barrels in them then why have a primitive season at all !
My feeling is that as a weapon becomes more efficient at killing it should be regulated or moved out of the special seasons.There are reasons for special seasons the animals are more vulnerable its not about the weapon but the animal in my opinion and there is more to that than just weapon efficiency !
You are unbelievable.

You say that you cant stand progress making archery equipment too efficient. Yet you use compounds. Should you not be restricted to long bows, recurves or crossbows only in archery season. Yes crossbows have been around long before compounds with their let off, triggers, lighted sights, now they have rangefinders scopes or view finders and other advantages to help. So I guess your saying that compound bows should also be excluded from an archery season.

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Re: BC Proposal to BAN Scopes on Crossbows

Post by ihunt » Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:27 pm

Solution: divide the archery season into two, one for ‘purist’ bow hunters and the other for crossbows. Now watch the purist complain their season shorten but no crossbows! :thumbup: :lol:
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Re: BC Proposal to BAN Scopes on Crossbows

Post by IronNoggin » Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:52 pm

What to do in response:

First: On the original post, there is a link.
Upper left corner "Sign In". You do that the same way as signing in to your BC Hunting Account.
Then you can cast a vote for any and all of the proposals, and comment after you have done so.
Important Step.

Second:

Write the BCWF and inform them you are opposed. CC to any and all of your own affiliates, and then cc to the provincial government.
Also an Important Step.

BCWF: - ATTENTION: All Executives and members of the Board: [email protected] , [email protected]

Province of BC Environment Minister George Heyman: [email protected]

CC: Premier John Horgan: [email protected]

Andrew Weaver ; [email protected]

I also recommend cc'ing everyone who was identified as being at the table when this bullshit was passed:

GOABC: [email protected]

BC Trappers Assc: [email protected]

Wild Sheep Society: [email protected]

United Bowhunters of BC: [email protected] (Note: Uncertain if that address still works. It is off their now defunct website)

Interesting Note: The Wildlife Stewardship Council does not openly list their email address, but you can reach them with this form link: http://www.wildlifestewardshipcouncil.com/contact-us

Following up with paper copies goes a looooong way.

Cheers,
Nog
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Re: BC Proposal to BAN Scopes on Crossbows

Post by Timbrhuntr » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:27 pm

"You say that you cant stand progress making archery equipment too efficient. Yet you use compounds. Should you not be restricted to long bows, recurves or crossbows only in archery season. Yes crossbows have been around long before compounds with their let off, triggers, lighted sights, now they have rangefinders scopes or view finders and other advantages to help. So I guess your saying that compound bows should also be excluded from an archery season."

I never said anything should be excluded from archery season. I never said I can't stand making archery equipment too efficient either I just don't think it will be good in the long run for special archery only seasons!


"Should you not be restricted to long bows, recurves or crossbows only in archery season. Yes crossbows have been around long before compounds with their let off, triggers, lighted sights, now they have rangefinders scopes or view finders"

So you think a modern crossbow is the same as a recurve or longbow ?


"There have been ZERO studies as to harvest rates through the various bow seasons, let alone a breakdown between vertical and horizontal bows.
Instead, this proposal was presented based on emotion, and I think that...

No science, No Way! :thumbdown:"

I missed this but it is something that I do agree with .

I will still state that I would not be opposed to the banning of scopes on any atrchery equipment but I did not ask for it.

And no you can't have my scope and no I don't feel I should stop using it or so called lead by example I never asked for the baning of scopes I just said that it wouldn't bother me along with some of the other things that are being added to bows like lighted sights etc

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Re: BC Proposal to BAN Scopes on Crossbows

Post by IronNoggin » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:59 pm

An interesting and comprehensive study from Wisconsin.

https://dnr.wi.gov/About/NRB/2019/October/00%20Tuesday%202019-10-3A%20Wisconsin%20Crossbow%20Report%20Final.pdf

"The preponderance of the evidence from these multiple lines of inquiry suggests that all-inclusive crossbow use is not currently a biological concern for deer herd management or a pressing
social issue for most hunters.

Another area of interest is the distance at which deer can be harvested by crossbows compared with compound bows. On the motivations survey, the maximum range at which hunters reported they would take a shot at a deer differed between guns and stringed weapons; but no significant difference was found in the reported maximum ranges for crossbow and compound bow users.

Finally, we surveyed state agencies in 19 states about the establishment of crossbows as a legal weapon in their state, who their crossbow users were, and any effects on the state’s deer herd the addition of crossbows may have had. Most states that allow crossbow use allow it statewide during the entire archery season. States that did not allow crossbow use for all bow hunters, restricted their use because of concerns for perceived crowding, over-harvest (primarily of mule deer), appropriate weapon classification, and/or opposition by archery organizations. No state interviewed that allowed crossbow use has shortened its season or restricted crossbow use from the original law.

The addition of crossbows in these states showed little impact on established seasons/traditions or hunters’ willingness to bag deer,and crossbows did not cause any change in total deer harvest or any measurable biological impact on the state’s deer herd.

As society changes and as the use of technology continues to evolve, it is the department’s responsibility to ensure the deer herd is managed properly and to provide deer hunters the flexibility to establish their own deer hunting traditions.In other words, the department is responsible for adapting to changing social and technological changes, but the agency should neither be the drivers of these changes nor the resistance to them.


WELL worth the read Folks! Puts to bed a hell of a lot of the assumptions out there!
Indeed, I would WELCOME such a study right here in BC!!

Cheers!!
Nog
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Re: BC Proposal to BAN Scopes on Crossbows

Post by Fazan » Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:55 am

Timbrhuntr wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:38 pm
"Making any archery equipment less accurate does NOT help in controlling numbers of animls harvested, I can see it harming the numbers in the herds. If a hunter has a bad hit and is not able to recover the animal, the hunter does not use his tag, therefore is able to continue hunting to fill his tag. This means more than one animal might be eliminated per tag. NOT A GOOD THING I can also see the image of hunting taking a turn for the bad because there more than likely be lost animals being found dead by an anti-hunter, again NOT A GOOD THING."
I can't agree more. If they want less animals harvested they should issue less tags, rather than make harder for hunters to humanly kill those animals.

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