mechanical broad heads

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LRMNUT
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Re: mechanical broad heads

Post by LRMNUT » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:57 am

LRMNUT wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:53 am
LRMNUT wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:38 pm
Just shot my first deer with a crossbow Grizz 2 I was using mechanical broad heads they didn't seem to open up the way I had expected I have always shot fixed blades in my compound bow but decided to try these.I put a good hit on the deer had no trouble finding it, it went about 70 yards but the blood trail wasn't that good due to the entry and exit wound only being about the size of my finger. What do you guy shoot I went with the mechanical for better arrow flight.
Thanks
Lee
I was using brand new never shot before GRIM REAPER 100gr broad head they have no bands one blade was open when I retrieved the arrow I shot the deer broadside took out both lungs so a field point probably would have worked (not recommended) the entry and exit wound could both be filled with my finger so I'am not sure if the one blade opened till it passed thru and hit the ground. tried to add a pic showing the one blade open keep saying pic was to large.
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Re: mechanical broad heads

Post by xpert1111 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:02 am

Always use dental bands. Shooting aggressive 400+ fps crossbow I will never chance it.

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Re: mechanical broad heads

Post by nchunterkw » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:03 pm

Tom wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:01 pm
The entry hole with a mechanical will always be smaller. But your exit should be full size.

A blood trail can be very different depending on the situation. Shots from elevation with the exit hole lower usually gives a better blood trail. Shots from the ground (parallel) has the exit and entry holes fairly even and your blood trail might not be what you want oe expect. Remember a large blood trail usually has blood pooling inside before reaching the hole and exiting. If it is a higher hit, the blood has to pool higher before exiting. Pieces of ft or meat might also lot the holes to limit blood exiting.

A 70 yard recovery is not to bad. It means the head must have worked fairly well. But the only way to tell for sure is to inspect the path through the animal the head took.

Tom
SO much of this answer is just flat wrong. AS with any living thing the circulatory system is under pressure...so blood sprays out upon initial arrow impact and that continues the whole way. A deer does not need to "fill up" before any blood pours out. I hunt almost exclusively from the ground, using 125gr Ramcats, or Slick Tricks. On a good double lung shot with a pass thru, I generally have blood all over trees and what not at the point of impact with the blood trail growing from there. Usually I see blood on both sides of the trail indicating bleeding from the sides, but then I soon see blood on the cenetr of the trail which is most likely coming from the nose/mouth and these are usually much larger drops. When you see this you can bet the deer is not far.

My thoughts on mech heads is that they just add another thing that can fail. Your bow will shoot quality fixed heads very accurately with good arrows, so that is my choice. If a fixed head does not fly good on your arrow, but a FP or a mech head do, then I would say that arrow needs some improvement. I understand too that that as your arrow goes faster and faster, that any arrow deficiencies are multiplied exponentially, so getting good flight with a fixed head gets harder. So it's a tradeoff I think. Use what you can be uber confident in.
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Re: mechanical broad heads

Post by Tom » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:46 pm

nchunterkw wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:03 pm
Tom wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:01 pm
The entry hole with a mechanical will always be smaller. But your exit should be full size.

A blood trail can be very different depending on the situation. Shots from elevation with the exit hole lower usually gives a better blood trail. Shots from the ground (parallel) has the exit and entry holes fairly even and your blood trail might not be what you want oe expect. Remember a large blood trail usually has blood pooling inside before reaching the hole and exiting. If it is a higher hit, the blood has to pool higher before exiting. Pieces of ft or meat might also lot the holes to limit blood exiting.

A 70 yard recovery is not to bad. It means the head must have worked fairly well. But the only way to tell for sure is to inspect the path through the animal the head took.

Tom
SO much of this answer is just flat wrong. AS with any living thing the circulatory system is under pressure...so blood sprays out upon initial arrow impact and that continues the whole way. A deer does not need to "fill up" before any blood pours out. I hunt almost exclusively from the ground, using 125gr Ramcats, or Slick Tricks. On a good double lung shot with a pass thru, I generally have blood all over trees and what not at the point of impact with the blood trail growing from there. Usually I see blood on both sides of the trail indicating bleeding from the sides, but then I soon see blood on the cenetr of the trail which is most likely coming from the nose/mouth and these are usually much larger drops. When you see this you can bet the deer is not far.

My thoughts on mech heads is that they just add another thing that can fail. Your bow will shoot quality fixed heads very accurately with good arrows, so that is my choice. If a fixed head does not fly good on your arrow, but a FP or a mech head do, then I would say that arrow needs some improvement. I understand too that that as your arrow goes faster and faster, that any arrow deficiencies are multiplied exponentially, so getting good flight with a fixed head gets harder. So it's a tradeoff I think. Use what you can be uber confident in.
My statements were a generality as in ...... this is normal happenings.

My statement was :
A blood trail can be very different depending on the situation
Yes blood can pour out with any cut, but that does not mean that it i will happen every time. I have seen double lung that had very little blood trail (exit hole was huge) but cut tissue from inside blocked up he hole and limited the flow.

Yes normally on a double lung, heavy breathing will cause "blow out" of blood, but not necessarily so. I have seen heavy blood trails when you would expect verry little. I have seen a heart shot with a minimal trail. Every situation is different and that is what I said.

nchunterkw, I am tired of you attacking me and my posts when ever you can.

As for people saying that becausea blade is closed on a head means that it did not open is false. Most or many mechanical heads have free flowing blades (preasure keeps them open) and once the pressure is removed on exitting, and the arrow slows, the blades have a tendency to move forward sometimes into a closed position.

The only 100% way to prove if all blades were open is by looking at the cutting path of the head. Is thre a proper # of cutting edges.

Tom
Tom
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Timbrhuntr
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Re: mechanical broad heads

Post by Timbrhuntr » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:44 pm

I have had several animals that I shot from ground level or horizontal since I started hunting with a crossbow and most of them have had little to no blood until after 20 to 30 yards . I have never had this with an animal hit from an elivated positiond and usually have blood in a few yards .

I should add that several of those animals when I opened them up were full of blood that had not come spraying out but just leaked internally !

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Re: mechanical broad heads

Post by nchunterkw » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:21 pm

Tom wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:46 pm
nchunterkw wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:03 pm
Tom wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:01 pm
The entry hole with a mechanical will always be smaller. But your exit should be full size.

A blood trail can be very different depending on the situation. Shots from elevation with the exit hole lower usually gives a better blood trail. Shots from the ground (parallel) has the exit and entry holes fairly even and your blood trail might not be what you want oe expect. Remember a large blood trail usually has blood pooling inside before reaching the hole and exiting. If it is a higher hit, the blood has to pool higher before exiting. Pieces of ft or meat might also lot the holes to limit blood exiting.

A 70 yard recovery is not to bad. It means the head must have worked fairly well. But the only way to tell for sure is to inspect the path through the animal the head took.

Tom
SO much of this answer is just flat wrong. AS with any living thing the circulatory system is under pressure...so blood sprays out upon initial arrow impact and that continues the whole way. A deer does not need to "fill up" before any blood pours out. I hunt almost exclusively from the ground, using 125gr Ramcats, or Slick Tricks. On a good double lung shot with a pass thru, I generally have blood all over trees and what not at the point of impact with the blood trail growing from there. Usually I see blood on both sides of the trail indicating bleeding from the sides, but then I soon see blood on the cenetr of the trail which is most likely coming from the nose/mouth and these are usually much larger drops. When you see this you can bet the deer is not far.

My thoughts on mech heads is that they just add another thing that can fail. Your bow will shoot quality fixed heads very accurately with good arrows, so that is my choice. If a fixed head does not fly good on your arrow, but a FP or a mech head do, then I would say that arrow needs some improvement. I understand too that that as your arrow goes faster and faster, that any arrow deficiencies are multiplied exponentially, so getting good flight with a fixed head gets harder. So it's a tradeoff I think. Use what you can be uber confident in.
My statements were a generality as in ...... this is normal happenings.

My statement was :
A blood trail can be very different depending on the situation
Yes blood can pour out with any cut, but that does not mean that it i will happen every time. I have seen double lung that had very little blood trail (exit hole was huge) but cut tissue from inside blocked up he hole and limited the flow.

Yes normally on a double lung, heavy breathing will cause "blow out" of blood, but not necessarily so. I have seen heavy blood trails when you would expect verry little. I have seen a heart shot with a minimal trail. Every situation is different and that is what I said.

nchunterkw, I am tired of you attacking me and my posts when ever you can.

As for people saying that becausea blade is closed on a head means that it did not open is false. Most or many mechanical heads have free flowing blades (preasure keeps them open) and once the pressure is removed on exitting, and the arrow slows, the blades have a tendency to move forward sometimes into a closed position.

The only 100% way to prove if all blades were open is by looking at the cutting path of the head. Is thre a proper # of cutting edges.

Tom
Tom,
I have no personal beef with you, just with mis-information. You make generalities about the height of entrance and exit holes and blood trails, then attack me for calling you on it by: 1) first agreeing with my points, but then 2) quickly pointing out there "can be" exceptions. Of course there are exceptions but the generality that you have to be in a tree to get a good blood trail is false. Hell, I even had a ridiculous blood trial on a bison that I shot from the ground...and that thing had a super thick winter coat to absorb lots of blood. Outfitter said he never saw a blood trail that good on a bison. Blood was sprayed all over the prairie grass.

Timbrhuntr - if that is really you experience, then I'd suggest you get a better performing broadhead or work on shot placement. . No blood for 20 to 30 yards as a routine from the ground, but "never" on an elevated shot? Really? Never? Never ever?

I'm out. Have fun with the rest of this thread.
Keith
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Re: mechanical broad heads

Post by Timbrhuntr » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:54 pm

I actually shot a moose quartering away took out lung and part of the heart. From the ground and the moose ran 65 yards down a logging road before first visible blood !! I have shot them with nap thunderheads and rages and every horizontal shot has had a long lead time before first blood. Then easy follow and yes this has happened on all animals I have shot on the ground with a crossbow maybe not always 30 yards sometimes less sometimes more. I have never had this happen from an elevated shot but I guess its just poor shot placement lol I would also add they pronghorn I shot with my compound from the ground this year ran 80 yards with no blood . I watched him run across the prarie and fall. It was erasy to follow his route. I always backtrack to follow the blood to the source for experience in case I need to find blood when an animal goes out of sight quicky and for practise on blood trailing !

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Re: mechanical broad heads

Post by longbow joe » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:42 am

I once shot a big 8 pointer 15 yards with a giant rothaar snuffer absolute lung shot total passthrough and l was on the ground.
O blood .....found him after a long
visual grid search . honestly there was hardly much blood where he crashed only on mouth area...l simply was baffled by it myself.
As l say often some hunting things just can be explained.
I have had deer l found for friends that were shot in absolutely non vital organ areas and honestly they didn't deserve the deer because they flat out suck at shooting .... but we found them because they were using a big expandable nap or a super freak trauma and its giant cut made up for their poor marksmanship
All kinds of angles with broadheads ....and many scenarios for sure.
Here in se Pennsylvania l hunt a tidal area that resembles a jungle so regardless of fixed or expandable
I'm looking for anything with a wide cut because l need a lot of blood.
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Re: mechanical broad heads

Post by longbow joe » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:01 am

[url=https://postimg.cc/VSBfmdxV]Image
This another buck that did a swim on me you can see its low tide and that's where l found him .Anything l can do to get more blood l do. Wider the better...l hate getting wet and muddy when l dont have to.
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Re: mechanical broad heads

Post by nchunterkw » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:08 am

Timbrhuntr wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:54 pm
I actually shot a moose quartering away took out lung and part of the heart. From the ground and the moose ran 65 yards down a logging road before first visible blood !! I have shot them with nap thunderheads and rages and every horizontal shot has had a long lead time before first blood. Then easy follow and yes this has happened on all animals I have shot on the ground with a crossbow maybe not always 30 yards sometimes less sometimes more. I have never had this happen from an elevated shot but I guess its just poor shot placement lol I would also add they pronghorn I shot with my compound from the ground this year ran 80 yards with no blood . I watched him run across the prarie and fall. It was erasy to follow his route. I always backtrack to follow the blood to the source for experience in case I need to find blood when an animal goes out of sight quicky and for practise on blood trailing !
I tried to stay out, but just can't.

Tell me why an arrow passing through a deer from an elevated shot leaves blood right at the POI, and a horizontal shot does not? In both cases the deer takes off before he has a chance to really bleed a lot right? So the blood you see must be blowing out from the wound channel as the arrow goes through. Does it make sense that that only happens from an elevated shot? Wouldn't it happen from a horizontal shot passing through both lungs too? But is sprays out horizontally too? Onto trees and things 2ft above the ground?

Tracking back to the POI is good practice, I do it myself when I see them fall, but my effort in looking for blood in that case is far different from my effort in looking for blood when I have not already laid hands on the animal. Maybe there is more blood there than you realize.

I use a Blood Hunter light - which I highly recommend - the difference between that and a super bright LED headlamp is very great - and also carry some Lumenol tablets and 4oz of water. Works great too.

And I think BH matters as well. IMO a 4 blade leaves a lot of sign (Slick Trick) but the RamCat does an excellent job.

It would be interesting to resurrect this thread in season where we can post pic/videos as a way to help educate others on blood trailing. It's a hard subject to find good material on. Lots of articles but not lots of step by step pic and things.
Keith
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Re: mechanical broad heads

Post by Timbrhuntr » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:18 am

I have no idea why. Every animal I have shot from above has had a good blood trail starting within yards of the shot. I look hard for blood. The moose ran along a dry logging road and after an exhausting search we found one small drop of blood on rock and from that we began to find more until we could see where he had obviously snorted out blood and then blood from his mouth. When we found him he was full of blood and basically only bleeding from the mouth. There is web site that does several blood trailing challenges every year and they are very educational and well done.

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Re: mechanical broad heads

Post by tcwild » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:35 pm

I can see both sides of this. In my thinking on a horizontal shot you could find blood spray ( SIGN ) from exit of the arrow but not have a blood TRAIL immediately if hit was not low in the chest. And on the other hand I see a BETTER CHANCE of a much quicker blood TRAIL on a elevated shot due to shot angle. Either shot should show evidence of hit at POI but the TRAIL could be different. And as with everything CHIT HAPPENS.

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Re: mechanical broad heads

Post by Normous » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:16 pm

I have crossbow arrowed a lot of deer since 1991 and no two blood trails were identical since arrowing my first deer. It would certainly be difficult to predict the outcome because no two shots have been the same.

What I have noted using large cut mechanicals, is that blood trails start earlier and are noticeably heavier. To be honest, I don't recall a deer going more than 50y using large cut mechanicals hit well through both lungs.
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Re: mechanical broad heads

Post by Doe Master » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:54 am

As Norm stated no two bloodtrails are the same . My first deer was shot with a small camlock on the ground . She went 51 yards and dropped . ( you always remember your first ) .
She left a blood trail Dad said Ray Charles could have followed right from 5 yards on .
I think we all can agree that the bigger the hole the less chance of blockage before the animal expires .
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Re: mechanical broad heads

Post by longbow joe » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:35 am

I will always strive for a lung shot as everyone else but l have shot about 7 deer so far with the crossbow on the ground that were walking towards me in the ghosblind using a throat shot anywhere in the middle of the bib and it was devastating.
This is where the large expandable broad head shines.
I have killed 2 with a ramcat with that throat shot .The cat has also some decent width but it wasn't as dramatic as a super freaks b52 size.
I would not do the throat shot with a 1 1/8 cut normal broadhead l just dont think it's big enough to find the arterys.
My main happiness about the expandables is the safety factor of not having the blades to get me. ....
Ohh that's another story ..
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