Ethical Gray Areas

[dithian]

In this covid madness we all need a little something to take our minds off, so here's a topic for discussion:

I'm a writer, and part of my currency is exploring ethical gray areas. They tell us so much about a person's unique perspective and moral code, and also the breaking point at which a person will go against the grain of their own moral fiber to achieve a specific end. While much of ethics seems obvious and set in stone, we see at the extremes that ethics are a shifting ground of extenuating circumstances. We would all agree that stealing is wrong, but what about the case of a man who needs to feed his starving eight year-old daughter tucking a loaf of bread in his coat? Doesn't he have a moral duty to keeping his daughter alive? Or, what if to steal that bread he has to kill a man first? We would all have slightly different answers to these questions at the extremes.

Nowhere is this ethical relativism more apparent than in hunting. For some, hunting itself is immoral and unethical and no one should do it. Obviously, nobody in this thread is in that camp. But we see threads on here all the time about which shot is too far, or too extreme, or too experimental, and the debates can get… lively. Below are two examples from my experiences of ethical gray areas while hunting. I'd love to hear other people's stories of unexpected moments that left you scratching your head about "right" and "wrong".

The first is pretty simple. Two massive trophy bucks decided to have a tussle 20 yards from me. The whole time both of them were broadside, and for a good five minutes I could have pulled the trigger at any time. I didn't. For one thing, part of my hunting is to participate in controlling an invasive species, so I normally hold out for does, but the main reason was this: Bucks battling for dominance is the genetic struggle writ large, and I only had a 50-50 chance of shooting the weaker one. To me, it was more ethical to let nature have its way, but several arguments could also have been made for pulling the trigger——it is an invasive species, after all, and the only good deer is a dead one, according to some. I was on the fence for most of the time, held back only by my ethical uncertainty.

The second one: My blind was near an avocado tree and there was a lot of fruit on the ground. A herd came in and began to graze on the avocados, and I was trying to pick out a good doe without a fawn. Suddenly I heard a strange gagging sound, and I turned to see a doe in easy range and perfectly broadside choking on an avocado that had obviously gotten lodged in her throat. She was really struggling. Do you kick a doe when she's down, or run in to perform the Heimlich? This went on for over a minute when I finally decided to take the shot. Maybe I was putting her out of her misery? I don't know. While I don't regret it, I still think it's a little unsporting. A gruesome side note to this story: The doe ran about 25 yards into some cover, so I decided to let her bleed out while I took care of a few other things. I was gone maybe an hour, and when I found the doe, a pig had gotten to her first. The pig had eaten off the whole front half of the doe's face just to get to the avocado inside. Maybe it was a tongue sandwich?

[hankenhunter]

The answer is simple in your scenario. Shoot whichever is losing and save the dominant buck some energy.

[dithian]

The answer is simple in your scenario. Shoot whichever is losing and save the dominant buck some energy.

Yeah, thought of that. Not sure I would know which one lost, though. The tactic has a particularly… Roman-style justice

[racking up points]

Great post! Where do you live that deer are an invasive species?

I have twice shot injured deer, smaller deer, when bucks were around. Case in point, this season, a decent buck is chasing a group of antlerless deer and can see that the doe at the back of the group has a dead leg; it’s just flopping around at the shoulder like it’s been blown partially off. It’s a muzzleloader hunt, one shot. I dropped that doe on the spot and didn’t think twice. Now had it been a booner on her trail, would I have made the same decision? Honestly, nope. I can’t lie.

[longbow joe]

I have shot a few deer over the years that have had severe car injuries or other hunters poor shots .

[papa bear1]

I think you made the right choice,
you made the choice of a (Real) sportsman.
and a true hunter.

Dave

[ComfyBear]

In life nothing is clear cut or "black and white". Instead it is comprised of a lot of "shades of gray". Therefore, there is never a perfect answer to any question. As most know, every decision has several pros and several cons. So, the choice we make should be based upon our perspective of how we perceive which has the most pros and the fewest cons. To do so, one must deliberate and hope that one has the analytical skills to be able to deduce and make the most appropriate decision for that particular time and situation. Once that decision is made and executed, one should not second guess that choice, but instead learn from it and it's consequences.

[Doe Master]

I agree there is many grey areas . Comes down to where you live and how you were brought up or into the hunting world .
Many examples come to mind .
1. Hunting over dogs for deer . Running game so some say poor percentage of shot placement .
2. Hunting over bait . People say too easy but others can say allows for better shot placement .
3. When turkey hunting shooting off the roost . Anybody who has turkey hunted knows it is not always an easy task to get anywhere close enough to perform this task . One time me and Dad were hunting a particular bird . He was coming in gobbling but unfortunately drew the attention of the neighbours dog . The dog chased the bird into a tree close to above Dad . Is this shooting a bird on the roost or from an elevated position ?
4. Hunting behind high fence . Some would say not fair chase because it is captive . But if the area is several thousand acres is the deer ever going to see all the boundaries .
5. Turkey hunting behind a decoy . Some would say it is a safety issue . But if done right in the right place is very effective .

[janesy]

A little bit off topic, but same story. In my line of work(retail) and being open with hunting I tend to end up having many conversations with people I don't know about hunting, guns, fishing... Whatever. Some time I want to talk to them sometimes I dont.

The one story that people LOVE to share( to a complete stranger remember) is the to they shot two turkeys with one shot. Now in Ontario, this is illegal for so many reasons and frankly, I'm not fish coping anyone, but it's always a Tom and a Hen. But it tells me one of three things right away. 1) your possible a bad shot or impatient at best. 2) you don't actually know the rules 3) you don't follow the rules.

Everyone slips up, when the minutes turn to seconds and then the seconds last for minutes, things happen, thought processes change. You make a split second compromise with yourself. This is human nature to get what you've been wanting, effected by all sorts of inputs. Happens in all facets of life.
But, I think the way to go about these situations are best to just keep tucked up under your hat for you to think about later on when it happens again.

I'm not talking solely about the legal ramifications, not my point, but the idea of a grey area seems to come up often in conversations. And sometimes I wonder if maybe they want to get it out in the open, because they are having a hard time with it.

[dithian]

I agree there is many grey areas…

Thanks for this list. I hunt very differently and make different choices based on the fact that I'm in it for invasive species control and to put food in the freezer than if I were approaching it like a sport. To me, the most efficient, least traumatic and most humane way to make it happen is the best way. I'm not opposed to a person baiting them in if what they're trying to do is get food for their family. If it's just for entertainment, though, I think it's a pretty low way to sport. I'm not really much in favor of trophy hunting for trophy's sake, but as part of responsible herd management and where the meat is eaten, I don't see harm in holding out for the big rack; but I'm not in it to judge anyone else's approach, that's just my way of thinking.

Around here folks use dogs to hunt pigs, which I bristle at personally, but the practice is entwined with culture at this point, and who am I to say they shouldn't? How they treat their dogs, however, is another matter. Some love and care for their pack, but some treat them most inhumanely.

I came to hunting as a choice in my adult years after breaking from it in my teenage years. I can say many of my assumptions of right and wrong have been turned on their ear by experience. For example, I used to think that anyone who eats meat should at least be willing to pull the trigger on it themselves. Now I understand that everyone in a society has different jobs. Some people hunt and can navigate the vagaries of taking life, and it's okay for those without the stomach for it to do other things and enjoy the health our meat provides. Hunting is a very personal relationship with self and nature.

[Doe Master]

My thought is if it is legal means of harvesting an animal . Who am I to judge !!!

[janesy]

My thought is if it is legal means of harvesting an animal . Who am I to judge !!!