Is this REALLY a crossbow???

Crossbow Hunting

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ihunt
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Is this REALLY a crossbow???

Post by ihunt » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:30 am

Saw a commercial advertising Lancehead F1 Crossbow without limbs but a crossbow has to have limbs otherwise it’s not a ‘cross’ bow.
So what are your thoughts? Is it or not a crossbow? Is it legal for hunting as most regulations describes having limbs?

Link: https://lancehead.com/
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Jack Pine
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Re: Is this REALLY a crossbow???

Post by Jack Pine » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:37 am

Technically not a crossbow in the traditional sense, but I don't know what you'd call it. "Mechanical contrivance" maybe.
Wouldn't mind shooting one but at this time I have no desire at all to own one.
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Re: Is this REALLY a crossbow???

Post by grouse » Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:24 pm

I'm not in favor of stopping research and progress but we could end up with a lot of protests from vertical archers. It would be hard to call this thing a primitive weapon. I congratulate them for developing new technology that seems to work well, but this seems to blur the line between a crossbow a mechanical gun. Advancements like this take some of the charm away from using a crossbow.
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Re: Is this REALLY a crossbow???

Post by DuckHunt » Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:05 pm

Not only is this not a crossbow, I don't think you can call it a bow at all. Bows have limbs. This appears to be spring driven.

They make air powered arrow rifles. To me this is more like a spring powered arrow rifle. Putting a crossbow rail on it instead of a barrel doesn't make it a crossbow. It's certainly an interesting concept.

Some states (VA) are pretty liberal in what they will allow people to hunt with and account for new technology quickly. Then there are other states (WV) that are slow as molasses to make any changes at all. I'm sure there's a place somewhere that will allow folks to hunt with it. For those folks, I say Happy Hunting!
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Re: Is this REALLY a crossbow???

Post by amythntr » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:57 pm

DuckHunt wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:05 pm
Not only is this not a crossbow, I don't think you can call it a bow at all. Bows have limbs. This appears to be spring driven.

They make air powered arrow rifles. To me this is more like a spring powered arrow rifle. Putting a crossbow rail on it instead of a barrel doesn't make it a crossbow. It's certainly an interesting concept.

Some states (VA) are pretty liberal in what they will allow people to hunt with and account for new technology quickly. Then there are other states (WV) that are slow as molasses to make any changes at all. I'm sure there's a place somewhere that will allow folks to hunt with it. For those folks, I say Happy Hunting!
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Re: Is this REALLY a crossbow???

Post by curious » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:51 pm

I checked out the video on YouTube quite innovative but not a crossbow in my opinion. Looks rather cumbersome and heavy, I wouldn't want to be walking and stalking with it. To each their own though.
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Re: Is this REALLY a crossbow???

Post by DuckHunt » Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:56 am

I got it! It's a quad-cammed yo-yo bow. :lol:
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Re: Is this REALLY a crossbow???

Post by Doe Master » Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:50 am

I think where it may meet the criteria for some places . Is it does state a draw length and weight .
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Re: Is this REALLY a crossbow???

Post by SoldierMan » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:41 am

Something similar, a PCP airbow!
Doesn't interest me but thought you guys might find it amusing...

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Re: Is this REALLY a crossbow???

Post by ihunt » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:02 am

SoldierMan wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:41 am
Something similar, a PCP airbow!
Doesn't interest me but thought you guys might find it amusing...

https://www.outdoorandvelocity.co.za/shop/pioneer-airbow-benjamin/
I think these companies should read what the definition of a bow is? If it shoots an arrow doesn’t mean it’s a bow! Heck I can shoot a arrow with a slingshot but it’s not a bow.
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Re: Is this REALLY a crossbow???

Post by DuckHunt » Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:36 pm

ihunt wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:02 am
If it shoots an arrow doesn’t mean it’s a bow! Heck I can shoot a arrow with a slingshot but it’s not a bow.
Yet in Virginia they call that a slingbow and it is legal to use during archery season.

The air powered arrow rifles they mention above they call an arrow gun. They are also legal, but only with a permit for folks that can't use a regular bow. However, arrow guns that are explosive powered are not legal during archery season.
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Re: Is this REALLY a crossbow???

Post by Species8472 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:38 pm

DuckHunt wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:05 pm
Not only is this not a crossbow, I don't think you can call it a bow at all. Bows have limbs. This appears to be spring driven.

Bow limbs are actually a type of spring in much the same way the leaf springs on a vehicle are considered springs. Let me muddy the water - All bow limbs are springs but not all springs are bow limbs. That being said I am in agreement - it is not a bow as the "springs" on a bow are by definition limbs and not coils.
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Re: Is this REALLY a crossbow???

Post by janesy » Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:48 pm

This conversation happened when compound bows came out and still is happening. It probably also happened in medieval times when they made the first crossbow by some umpity long archer who didn't like change. Remember only six months ago the very guys were still trying to take scopes away from the crossbow guys(thanks Nog! :thumbup: )

Fact is, Crossbows as we know them today, will one day be antiquated and a new method will take over. So to say that that particular bow is or isn't a bow is not for me to decide. The recurve bow will in fact one day be surpassed by the next most efficient design, does not look to me that this will be that time. But it's not for me to decide. Whatever floats you boat and puts the pointy end where it needs to go.

Still way to many moving parts for this guy :wink:
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Re: Is this REALLY a crossbow???

Post by grouse » Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:41 am

janesy wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:48 pm
This conversation happened when compound bows came out and still is happening. It probably also happened in medieval times when they made the first crossbow by some umpity long archer who didn't like change. Remember only six months ago the very guys were still trying to take scopes away from the crossbow guys(thanks Nog! :thumbup: )

Fact is, Crossbows as we know them today, will one day be antiquated and a new method will take over. So to say that that particular bow is or isn't a bow is not for me to decide. The recurve bow will in fact one day be surpassed by the next most efficient design, does not look to me that this will be that time. But it's not for me to decide. Whatever floats you boat and puts the pointy end where it needs to go.

Still way to many moving parts for this guy :wink:
In no way am I in favor of stopping people from improving anything but there are risks involved as crossbows get better and better. When we reach the point where a crossbow shoots at 800 - 1000 fps after turning a crank a few times, we'll be about where muzzle loaders were when they were first granted special seasons. Those special seasons are much shorter than archery seasons typically are because of the presumed greater degree of difficulty in harvesting a deer with archery equipment. Of course muzzle loaders are not what they used to be either. The same as true of handguns designed for hunting. My fears are probably ungrounded, but I worry that crossbows could become so good that they are moved to the muzzle loader and handgun seasons.
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Re: Is this REALLY a crossbow???

Post by janesy » Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:20 am

grouse wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:41 am
janesy wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:48 pm
This conversation happened when compound bows came out and still is happening. It probably also happened in medieval times when they made the first crossbow by some umpity long archer who didn't like change. Remember only six months ago the very guys were still trying to take scopes away from the crossbow guys(thanks Nog! :thumbup: )

Fact is, Crossbows as we know them today, will one day be antiquated and a new method will take over. So to say that that particular bow is or isn't a bow is not for me to decide. The recurve bow will in fact one day be surpassed by the next most efficient design, does not look to me that this will be that time. But it's not for me to decide. Whatever floats you boat and puts the pointy end where it needs to go.

Still way to many moving parts for this guy :wink:
In no way am I in favor of stopping people from improving anything but there are risks involved as crossbows get better and better. When we reach the point where a crossbow shoots at 800 - 1000 fps after turning a crank a few times, we'll be about where muzzle loaders were when they were first granted special seasons. Those special seasons are much shorter than archery seasons typically are because of the presumed greater degree of difficulty in harvesting a deer with archery equipment. Of course muzzle loaders are not what they used to be either. The same as true of handguns designed for hunting. My fears are probably ungrounded, but I worry that crossbows could become so good that they are moved to the muzzle loader and handgun seasons.
All valid points. Perfect example you've given is the muzzle loader vs the centerfire rifle. Even in single shot made the muzzle loader antiquated. But not gone. It's just human nature to "improve" something
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