Arrow Lethality - Great Info Here

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nchunterkw
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Arrow Lethality - Great Info Here

Post by nchunterkw »

With hunting seasons around the corner, this is a great website with lots of really good info. that I think every archer needs to know and think about.

https://www.ashbybowhunting.org/
Keith
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Re: Arrow Lethality - Great Info Here

Post by catclr »

Good information along with information from Troy Fowler on his youtube site.......https://youtu.be/JjXZQT1lBXg
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Re: Arrow Lethality - Great Info Here

Post by Boo »

Keith, I can’t help wanting to mess with guys that like the taste of Ashby flavoured koolaide :mrgreen: ,what is more destructive and or gives better penetration, a rail gun or a DU round?
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Re: Arrow Lethality - Great Info Here

Post by nchunterkw »

Boo,
You can call id koolaid if you want, but these guys are backed up by lots and lots of data - and real world testing - on real world animals. IMO there is nothing you can say to disparage anything they show in their data nor the conclusions they come up with. Now having said that, as with any data, you need to take it in, understand it and apply it to your situation. I will admit that with crossbows, we do not likely have to go to the extents they do given the much higher launch speeds of our arrows, but the basic premises of what they have proven absolutely 100% holds true with crossbows as well. Arrow/broadhead integrity for one for sure. A crappy arrow or broadhead that comes apart in the animal likely won't penetrate too far.

My point in this thread is to maybe raise an awareness with folks of what exactly is going on when you launch an arrow at an animal, and what happens at impact. To understand this only makes you a better archer.

And admittedly, I have been studying this all again as I am also going to hunt with an old 53# recurve and I am working on that setup.
Keith
Stand by the roads and look, and ask for the ancient paths; where the good way is,
and walk in it and find rest for your souls. - Jer 6:16

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Re: Arrow Lethality - Great Info Here

Post by Carnivorous »

I could probably write my own book on crossbow hunting. Lol

I have made some errors along the way but I usually don't repeat my blunders... :)
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Re: Arrow Lethality - Great Info Here

Post by nchunterkw »

Carnivorous wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:59 pm
I could probably write my own book on crossbow hunting. Lol

I have made some errors along the way but I usually don't repeat my blunders... :)
I'm with you Jeff! Usually those errors are where the most learning comes from too. It's all those hard lessons that have gotten me to the setup I use now.
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Re: Arrow Lethality - Great Info Here

Post by Boo »

I’m poking at you Keith. I do agree that there are a whack of benefits to weight in crossbow setups but much of what he preached was to do with more traditional set ups. I'll take a middle of the road approach with some liking for speed.
If you’re arrow is fast enough a 300 grain arrow will zip through any deer shot properly. But there are deminishing returns going in either direction and in the end, it’s about personal choice giving your confidence. There is no one right answer.
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Re: Arrow Lethality - Great Info Here

Post by Ankh »

I delved into this site a bit along with many ranch fairy videos. In my opinion the speed of the crossbow negates much of their testing. I have always used stock quills with 150 grain heads (fixed and mechanical). I have about 7 personal deer kills and all have been pass throughs, including 1 that hit shoulder bone. In my days of vertical bows, I had 1 pass through and 3 not. Not a huge sample size, but significant for me. Also, thanks for the link to this site, still makes for interesting reading and I'm sure I'll learn something from it.
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Re: Arrow Lethality - Great Info Here

Post by janesy »

Carnivorous wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:59 pm
I could probably write my own book on crossbow hunting. Lol

I have made some errors along the way but I usually don't repeat my blunders... :)
Or tell anyone when it happens again! In my case "middle of the middle.
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Re: Arrow Lethality - Great Info Here

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Ankh wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:47 pm
I delved into this site a bit along with many ranch fairy videos. In my opinion the speed of the crossbow negates much of their testing. I have always used stock quills with 150 grain heads (fixed and mechanical). I have about 7 personal deer kills and all have been pass throughs, including 1 that hit shoulder bone. In my days of vertical bows, I had 1 pass through and 3 not. Not a huge sample size, but significant for me. Also, thanks for the link to this site, still makes for interesting reading and I'm sure I'll learn something from it.

Sir I think your missing the point, saying the speed of the crossbow negates much of their testing. Once you watch most of his videos, you will see him use vertical bows that have a low as 40 lb. draw weight. He is trying to get it across, that if he can shoot hogs with these set ups, you will have no problem with deer. Mech. can go wrong even with a crossbow.
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Re: Arrow Lethality - Great Info Here

Post by nchunterkw »

Boo wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:46 pm
I’m poking at you Keith. I do agree that there are a whack of benefits to weight in crossbow setups but much of what he preached was to do with more traditional set ups. I'll take a middle of the road approach with some liking for speed.
If you’re arrow is fast enough a 300 grain arrow will zip through any deer shot properly. But there are deminishing returns going in either direction and in the end, it’s about personal choice giving your confidence. There is no one right answer.
I know Boo, but I just think this basic understanding will go a looooong way to helping people down the road to a good crossbow setup. You may want to check out the site too. It's a lot more than just a really heavy arrow. His 12 points to arrow lethality paper is very good. Things like arrow structural integrity, arrows that fly perfectly, FOC, edge bevel and sharpness, increasing bow efficiency through better arrow design....all are straight up applicable to crossbows. I'll give on the mechanical advantage of the broadhead and the benefits of tapered shafts etc...but if you shoot an arrow with a bigger diameter than the BH ferrule, just known that you will be hurting arrow performance by a good degree.

And remember, he is definitely taking a "worst case" approach to arrow design - which I think is a good thing to do. Yes you can put that 300gr arrow through the flimsy little ribs of a deer as you say......but pit that arrow against a spine on a high hit, or a pelvic bone on a too far back quartering away shot, or a shoulder and it's a different story maybe.....especially if that 300 gr arrow is tipped with a wide over the top expandable. IMO why take the chance? Shoot a 500gr arrow and you probably have no issues.

One thing I have learned, that applies only to crossbows (and not vert bows) is to shoot the absolute stiffest arrow you can. My little micro wit a 16' ZS hits so much harder than my Vortex did with a 20" quill, even though the arrow weights, BHs and ballistics are dang near identical.
Keith
Stand by the roads and look, and ask for the ancient paths; where the good way is,
and walk in it and find rest for your souls. - Jer 6:16

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Re: Arrow Lethality - Great Info Here

Post by nchunterkw »

catclr wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:22 pm
Ankh wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:47 pm
I delved into this site a bit along with many ranch fairy videos. In my opinion the speed of the crossbow negates much of their testing. I have always used stock quills with 150 grain heads (fixed and mechanical). I have about 7 personal deer kills and all have been pass throughs, including 1 that hit shoulder bone. In my days of vertical bows, I had 1 pass through and 3 not. Not a huge sample size, but significant for me. Also, thanks for the link to this site, still makes for interesting reading and I'm sure I'll learn something from it.

Sir I think your missing the point, saying the speed of the crossbow negates much of their testing. Once you watch most of his videos, you will see him use vertical bows that have a low as 40 lb. draw weight. He is trying to get it across, that if he can shoot hogs with these set ups, you will have no problem with deer. Mech. can go wrong even with a crossbow.
Love those videos. No nonsense and makes his point
Keith
Stand by the roads and look, and ask for the ancient paths; where the good way is,
and walk in it and find rest for your souls. - Jer 6:16

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Re: Arrow Lethality - Great Info Here

Post by Normous »

Ashby is notably my easiest Archery mentor and I remember reading his beginners guide over and over , and over again.

Our forefathers in Archery deserve mention because of the bleedover effect has on our chosen crossbow use in the field today . I still never miss an opportunity to read outr Archery legends journals and field notes. Fred Bear is my favorite.

A quick note, my 2020 personal arrows are assembled with a
Double Carbon wall front end with significant FOC to push the largest cut and durable blade American Made mechanical thru my next grocery game.

A perfect blend of old and new the way I see it.

I might add that my latest crossbow shoots a 21" 500 gr arrow at 465 fps
ED would be happy.
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Re: Arrow Lethality - Great Info Here

Post by longbow joe »

When l shot the longbow 60 lbs the 2 blade was the favorite because "depth of penetration " but l was very happy with the 3 blade rotharr snuffer .
I always thought that the heavy weight of the arrow was very important.
That's probably why l shoot these 300fps crossbows speed is really not much of an issue to me. Even with a heavy bolt I'm still 100 fps faster than any longbow or recurve l ever had .lol
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Re: Arrow Lethality - Great Info Here

Post by nchunterkw »

Normous wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:21 pm
21" 500 gr arrow at 465 fps
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
:clap: :clap: :clap:

So if the vitals are behind a tree you just go ahead and shoot through the tree??
Keith
Stand by the roads and look, and ask for the ancient paths; where the good way is,
and walk in it and find rest for your souls. - Jer 6:16

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